Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[LondonJohn]

Did you refer to a grown woman as a girl? Guess its ok for guilters.

Seems it's also perfectly OK for Massei to refer to Meredith Kercher (aged 21 when she was killed) constantly in his report as a girl (ragazza) rather than a woman (donna). Curious, huh......?

 

[CDHost]

You are correct, time will tell and I hope that whatever it does tell it will be able to be accepted to the satisfaction of most, if not all.

Normally thats what a trial processes does it builds a societal consensus for punishment. If that consensus is missing then an acquittal results. The problem here is that the country trying the case doesn't understand that they need to build a policial consensus.

To pick a much extreme example in judges in the hague didn't go with genocide even though they though Krstic was guilty of genocide, they went with aiding and abetting so that the trial had legitimacy in Serbia. They allowed Milosevic to engage in extensive cross examinations even though the prosecution objected.

In other words they did what was needed so that Serbs, while not always agreeing the verdict couldn't just write off the trial as "victor's justice". Massei did not show the same wisdom, and the result is a verdict which is rejected my Knox's peers. If the Italy wants closure they are going to need to start dealing with the political dimension.

 

[CDHost]

There are lots of supporters from both the political right and left. I think it is great that people with different political views have both come to the same conclusion and are working together to help.

A few of the names from the right - Steve Moore, PhanuelB

Who is PhanuelB?

 

[CDHost]

Melissa Marvin deserved punishment for driving drunk and causing an accident that killed 4 teenagers. The sentence was 15 years consecutive for each of the second degree murder charges with no eligibility for parole until the 60 years is up. What happened was a tragedy and I have had personal experience with accidents caused by drunk drivers. Still I believe the judge went way too far in his sentencing on this one.

I agree. Drunk driving was not an accident, the 4 deaths were. Sentences like this only compound tragedies.

 

[Alt+F4]

The judicial system is going to be used as a weapon to extort a very large amount of money from the Sollecito family. It's as brutally simple as that.

Again, where is the evidence that RS himself (not his father) has a very large amount of money?

 

[Alt+F4]

Did you refer to a grown woman as a girl? Guess its ok for guilters.

Scroll up as for the reason why I did. Call Amanda a sweet, innocent baby for all I care.

Amanda is a convicted killer. The "silly girl" playing her in the Lifetime movie is a bad actor. Get the difference? Get the context?

 

[Alt+F4]

Seems it's also perfectly OK for Massei to refer to Meredith Kercher (aged 21 when she was killed) constantly in his report as a girl (ragazza) rather than a woman (donna). Curious, huh......?

If I recall he referred to almost all the women in this case as girls, so what's your point?

 

[CDHost]

Profiling and psychiatric classifications shouldn't be used against Amanda in a court of law.

OK two FOA disagree. I actually think it should be used. In fact it IMHO is one of the key pieces of evidence which disproves the Massei/Mignini theory. We know a lot about couples that engage in rape/torture/murder.

Male -- Sadist, sexually dominant, psychopathic
Female -- Extreme masochist. Identifies with victim is highly aroused by demonstration of power.

If we want to argue this was a deliberate rape torture murder with Amanda taking the lead; then she is expressing a very highly masochistic sexuality. I want her profiled. I want to see evidence from Amanda's lovers of extreme masochism. For example Karla Homolka, freaked out many of the men she had relationships with by how rough she liked it.

Similarly Raffaele. Is he sexually functional without domination? Is he sexually aroused by non sexual violence?

Or maybe it was Rudy. Same thing. Was Rudy sending off the vibe and Amanda was switching over.

The prosecution wants to have Amanda playing the female role in a rape/torture/murder but also be motivated by jealousy. Now there are female killers who explode in jealous rages, and they have an entirely different psychological makeup. This is the sort of nonsense that litters the prosecution's case; where they don't stick to one theory.

So we disagree here. I'd like to see profiling given the nature of the prosecution's claims. Profiling, I think would knock a huge hole in their silly theories.

 

[CDHost]

Again, where is the evidence that RS himself (not his father) has a very large amount of money?

Its already been established that

a) RS has money
b) The Kerchers likely believe that RS will inherit money.
c) The Kerchers may overestimate the value of their civil suit against AK.

 

[LondonJohn]

If I recall he referred to almost all the women in this case as girls, so what's your point?

Well, I seem to remember someone saying the following:

Yes, calling a women a girl is meant to be derogatory or an appeal to emotion.

(Do you remember who said that, by the way?)

So, which of these two meanings do you think Massei and his distinguished colleagues were trying to convey by referring to the female protagonists as "girl" or "girls" ("ragazza"/"ragazze" in Italian)? Or does a different set of rules apply to him than to anyone on JREF calling Knox a girl?

ETA: Oh, I just forgot I was going to disregard everything you say after your unpleasant piece of misandry the other day. Bye now.

 

[Justinian2]

OK two FOA disagree. I actually think it should be used. In fact it IMHO is one of the key pieces of evidence which disproves the Massei/Mignini theory. We know a lot about couples that engage in rape/torture/murder.

Male -- Sadist, sexually dominant, psychopathic
Female -- Extreme masochist. Identifies with victim is highly aroused by demonstration of power.

If we want to argue this was a deliberate rape torture murder with Amanda taking the lead; then she is expressing a very highly masochistic sexuality. I want her profiled. I want to see evidence from Amanda's lovers of extreme masochism. For example Karla Homolka, freaked out many of the men she had relationships with by how rough she liked it.

Similarly Raffaele. Is he sexually functional without domination? Is he sexually aroused by non sexual violence?

Or maybe it was Rudy. Same thing. Was Rudy sending off the vibe and Amanda was switching over.

The prosecution wants to have Amanda playing the female role in a rape/torture/murder but also be motivated by jealousy. Now there are female killers who explode in jealous rages, and they have an entirely different psychological makeup. This is the sort of nonsense that litters the prosecution's case; where they don't stick to one theory.

So we disagree here. I'd like to see profiling given the nature of the prosecution's claims. Profiling, I think would knock a huge hole in their silly theories.

My my own eclectic profiling system indicated Amanda was innocent and the police and prosecutor were guilty. However, the facts have replaced the original formula I used for my own eclectic profiling system.

Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt means, for me, at least a 99% likelihood of guilt. Amanda, I believe, has less than a 1% chance of guilt in accord with the facts.

Profiling gives what, a 70% chance of guilt or innocence? The Craigslist killer didn't fit most of the profile for a killer. I guess his relationship to his parents fit, but that wasn't obvious at first.

Profiling works, but I don't think it is sufficiently accurate to produce a guilty verdict (>99%). Perhaps profiling is sufficient to determine reasonable doubt (<1%). What do you think?

 

[Kaosium]

I was offering my opinion on Withnail's question about "why there is such a strong tendency to minimise Rudy's role, both by Maresca's team, in articles published by John Kercher, and in places such as PMF." Withnail is making a point about Maresca by showing that Maresca has always had Raffaele, not Rudy, in his sights, in terms of civil penalties.

This would be Colonel Garafano's influence in my opinion, that's his 'theory' of the crime.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Who is PhanuelB?

CDHost

Ask Mary_H about phanuelB or google phanuelB and Amanda Knox.

 

[Chris C]

Scroll up as for the reason why I did. Call Amanda a sweet, innocent baby for all I care.

Amanda is a convicted killer. The "silly girl" playing her in the Lifetime movie is a bad actor. Get the difference? Get the context?

So your appealling to someones emotion?

 

[Justinian2]

Amanda is a sweet, innocent (sexually active) baby.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Who wanted the evidence reviewed and who did not

To all,

I am reposting a portion of an Andrea Vogt article describing the aftermath of the judges' rebuffing the 2009 request for an independent review, “Immediately after the judge's announcement, Sollecito bowed his head and briefly wept, as lawyers began haggling over court dates for closing arguments.”

A great deal of time has been spent analyzing why Raffaele wrote about the knife in his diary. Perhaps a little bit of time can be spent pondering why he cried when the evidence was not going to be reviewed, and why the prosecution opposed this review. I am still waiting for someone to suggest a better use for this knife.

 

[Danceme]

Why do you keep asking the same question?
<snip>
What's the point of that?

On this particular forum, with a huge number of pages spread over three threads doing exactly that, your question is simply hilarious.

Its already been established that

a) RS has money
b) The Kerchers likely believe that RS will inherit money.
c) The Kerchers may overestimate the value of their civil suit against AK.

Can you point to where it has been established, other than in your own wild fantasies of course.

 

[CDHost]

Can you point to where it has been established, other than in your own wild fantasies of course.

All within the last 4 days. This was dealt with. The property that Raf inherited when his mother died, how civil suits require transfer, book royalties...

 

[Chris_Halkides]

free-fire zone

I think Maresca has been very successful in creating the illusion of the little guys against the imaginary Knox PR juggernaut. Also I can't think of anyone in recent years who has been more successfully publicly vilified than Amanda Knox.

The prosecution's PR has been highly effective and continues to be so. Look how quickly they were able to plant that newspaper story about cocaine dealers after the Curatolo debacle.

Withnail1969,

The only other high profile case that involved so much character assassination is the Duke lacrosse case. Peter Applebome wrote, "How did college kids with no shortage of character witnesses become such a free-fire zone for the correct thinkers in academia, the news media and the socially conscious left? Like l'affaire Imus in reverse, why did denouncing them remain fair game long after it was clear that the charges against them could not be true, and that even most of the misbehavior originally alleged about the team party was distorted or false?"

 

[Chris C]

On this particular forum, with a huge number of pages spread over three threads doing exactly that, your question is simply hilarious.



Can you point to where it has been established, other than in your own wild fantasies of course.

I have asked this question before, and I don't think anyone gave an answer. Can Meredith's family be countersued or the court order them to pay Knox/Sollecito's legal fees because they hired Maresca, if the case gets overturned. Even I feel Maresca's involvement is about money. Yet it might not be about Sollecito's money. Italians have posted its considered a hostile act for a family to hire a lawyer to represent them at the trial. I dont know the process in Italy but when sueing someone in America if you lose you pay the persons legal fees you sued. It could be something as simple as Maresca protesting because there could be a backlash at the Kerchers. I'm not saying Knox/Sollecito would do this, yet it could be an automatic backlash by law. In America its pretty much automatic that you pay the defendants legal fees if you lose.