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Merged Their Return

carlitos said:
Yes. And you disrespect the people who carved these stones in a masterful manner by assuming they couldn't do it because you couldn't do it. Moreover, you disrespect them by calling them "stone age" and by incredulously suggesting that, since the primitive people couldn't do it, therefore gods. It's ridiculous.

Again with the quotes. Who is saying "omni" and about what? Great, I'll start using "gods" to refer to your hypothetical whatevers.

Why must you move the goalposts? It's dishonest. You claimed that gods somehow helped carve these stones out of diorite or granite. The stones are made of sandstone. No one here cares what you would "wager," since you haven't a clue.
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I didn't say they couldn't do it. I said it would have taken an army of master masons decades to do it. It is the amount of masterful work present that demands 'advanced technology' or every master mason alive at the time.

Capital "G"od, I think being that Monotheism thing, the first mover, literally the Big Bang, of which we are all a part of, and absolutely beholden to a set of action reaction principles.

Lower case "god" being how one sentient being might look upon one far more evolved. Say for example if Neanderthal man were to meet Nichole Kidman in sheer night gown, he might well see an "angel".

I haven't moved any goalpost. I don't think it is beyond reason to suggest that this site contains BOTH sandstone and other native rock like diorite.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Then you'd better get started soon. If you can't do it, you must believe that "gods" did it. That's the same thing you're saying about Pumapunku or you're a hypocrite.


You have no appreciation for the master masons that were at Pumapunku. Your derision of their efforts is palpable. You are a racist.


Where did I lie or display ignorance? I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a hypocrite.


Your opinions on the matter are irrelevant. If you believe it is name calling, report the post.
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I didn't mention "gods" in reference to the work there.

I have every appreciation for HOW MUCH MASTERFUL WORK is there, which you don't. And now you are calling me a racist...???

Is that what has to happen? Someone calls you a name, and you have to 'report' it, THEN the moderators take an action...?

So, it isn't what you post, but rather how someone else interprets your post, that determines whether or not you violated a policy...???

That's as stupid as skepticism... :rolleyes:
 
So... anyway - the Egyptians and their obelisks...
 
bruto said:
There do not have to be a slew of master masons out there. There must be a number of well trained stone workers, taught the technique of doing that job. The precision of the pattern may well be the work of a master, but the master need only provide the templates or plans for the work for it to be reproduced by someone skilled in the actual stone work. The very fact that so many of these stones were identical bespeaks a mass production and delegation of duties, not an army of individual masters. But even if there did need to be a number of master masons, what's the problem? We're looking at a settlement of something like 60 thousand people, in a culture where, quite obviously, stone work is considered a job and an art of the utmost importance. It's likely that masonry was a high status occupation. Why would we not see an unusual concentration of master masons in such a culture?
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Actually, 'farming' was their main job... So that MP3 link stated.

It also stated that they still don't know how they did it... 'I' think it would REQUIRE one of two things:

-an army of master masons

OR

-advanced technology of some kind, now lost to us

I don't think there were enough people to keep the master masons bits sharp...
 
King of the Americas said:
I didn't mention "gods" in reference to the work there.

I have every appreciation for HOW MUCH MASTERFUL WORK is there, which you don't. And now you are calling me a racist...???
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No, you have NO appreciation whatsoever for the work there and refuse to credit the people who lived there with its construction. You prefer to believe aliens magicked it into existence to the human ingenuity and enterprise of the indigenous people. You think them beneath you. You are a racist.

Is that what has to happen? Someone calls you a name, and you have to 'report' it, THEN the moderators take an action...?
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If you are unfamiliar with the way this forum works, I suggest you read the Membership Agreement.

So, it isn't what you post, but rather how someone else interprets your post, that determines whether or not you violated a policy...???

That's as stupid as skepticism... :rolleyes:
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I think that comment says quite a bit about you.
 
King of the Americas said:
Actually, 'farming' was their main job... So that MP3 link stated.

It also stated that they still don't know how they did it... 'I' think it would REQUIRE one of two things:

-an army of master masons

OR

-advanced technology of some kind, now lost to us

I don't think there were enough people to keep the master masons bits sharp...
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OR... a primitive form of an assembly line.

Each person performing their task well, but taken by itself, the task wasn't particularly complex.

It's a bit like building a car. I used to work with a guy who wasn't too smart some years ago. He then moved on to an automobile factory. He fitted bumper bars.

On high end 4wds.

So, a future civilisation could look back and say "there was either an army of incredibly clever people building these things (ie, one person building them from start to finish) or aliens did it" and miss the true story.

He simply put a piece in place and bolted it in. Then passed the task to the next person.
 
King of the Americas said:
I didn't say they couldn't do it. I said it would have taken an army of master masons decades to do it. It is the amount of masterful work present that demands 'advanced technology' or every master mason alive at the time.
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Yes, that's your claim. I have already asked for evidence of that. How many man-hours, what's the population, number of masons, how they would delegate work to unskilled labor, use templates, etc. Please show your math, otherwise you are just arguing from ignorance.

King of the Americas said:
I haven't moved any goalpost. I don't think it is beyond reason to suggest that this site contains BOTH sandstone and other native rock like diorite.
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I'm afraid you did. You said "stone age" and "granite" and now you're talking about master masons using metal tools on sandstone and diorite. Anyway, will you be posting evidence that the stones you posted, that look like sandstone, contain diorite?

Of course, with metal tools, man can carve diorite anyway, so can we stop pretending that gods did this?
 

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King of the Americas said:
I demonstrated earlier in a war scenario where a 'skeptic' dismissed the initial report of a scout, needing 'verification' of the anecdotal finding that lightly guarded artillery attacks were about to commence.
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And you obviously didn't pay any attention whatsoever to my response.

I don't believe in aliens.
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No one cares. "Aliens" is easier to type than anything else. You're a big boy. Deal.

I believe there was a time in our ancient past, that we 'lost' knowledge. Or that knowledge and or way of life ascended into the heavens.
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And you have no evidence to support this.
 
King of the Americas said:
Actually, 'farming' was their main job... So that MP3 link stated.

It also stated that they still don't know how they did it... 'I' think it would REQUIRE one of two things:

-an army of master masons

OR

-advanced technology of some kind, now lost to us

I don't think there were enough people to keep the master masons bits sharp...
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Saying "we don't know how they did it" is not the same thing as "we can't do it now" or as "we can't figure out a way to do it." True enough, we cannot be sure just what techniques they used, but that's all it means. A city of 60 thousand has plenty of room for both farmers and masons, and, for that matter, for smiths to keep the tools sharp.

Even if it's hard to figure out exactly how these tasks were done, it's still much much more reasonable to surmise that they were done by very skilled human beings (a creature known to exist) than to conjure up a race of alien astronauts or gods or whatever you want to call them. Passing the buck on your ignorance gains you nothing in understanding.

Defaulting to "it must have been gods" every time you see something that's beyond your ability to do is a poor way of understanding and appreciating the great cultural artifacts of humanity. It's insulting, superciliously ethnocentric, and intellectually lazy.
 
King of the Americas said:
That's as stupid as skepticism... :rolleyes:
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Please, stop embarrassing yourself. Why do you want to believe something so hard that you have to ignore all logical explanations? Why do you want so hard to believe in some sort of ancient "advanced technology"? (that there is no physical proof of ever existing)

I find life exciting enough just the way it is, no ancient astronauts needed.
 
Could someone please point out where I said "aliens", "ancient astronauts", or anyone other than master human masons were responsible for these works?
 
King of the Americas said:
Could someone please point out where I said "aliens", "ancient astronauts", or anyone other than master human masons were responsible for these works?
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Who are the "they" you are talking about then? A bunch of people that had super technology in the past that somehow disappeared? Do you think that they took their technology with them and are now responsible for the UFOs we see now?

Where is your good proof of super advanced technology from around the time? Don't show me the artifacts you claim were made with them, find me the technology.
 
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Zanders said:
Who are the "they" you are talking about then? A bunch of people that had super technology in the past that somehow disappeared? Do you think that they took their technology with them and are now responsible for the UFOs we see now?
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I don't know who they were, exactly. But they didn't disappear, they ascended. And yes, I think they took/have technology with them.

Zanders said:
Where is your good proof of super advanced technology from around the time? Don't show me the artifacts you claim were made with them, find me the technology.
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Why do you need the technology? Why isn't the result of that technology sufficient?
 
Correa Neto said:
Left, Tiwanaku/Pumapunku; right, Petra.
[qimg]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d150/AVCN/sandstone.jpg[/qimg]

They have different styles. One can argue that Petra required more work and more specialized people to build, given the more intricate ornaments. Please explain why the folks who built Petra would not have been able to make Pumapunku-like structures and carvings. Or Petra's builders also had "advanced technology"?
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Been to Petra, impressive place. At least 4 civilisations have lived there...

The second one did most of the rock work you are talking about (from memory).

It is WELL worth a visit, and Jordan is a fantastic place!
 
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