Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

deepatrax said:
Rachel Maddow claiming that a Republican actually had advance notice that the Oklahoma City bombing was going to happen:

"(Repbublican) Steve Stockman of Texas...Mr. Stockman actually received advance notice that the Oklahoma City bombing was going to happen"
- Rachel Maddow



only after her LIE was pointed out to her, did she have to go back and retrack it...claiming an editing error :rolleyes:

When in fact, months before this she had done this same story!
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No, that's just more nonsense.

I should point out, however, that she did correct herself, even though you have the time frame wrong. She's not making the same lie years after it was pointed out to her, like your homies do with their pet issues.

Now, if you could link to the video of Beck, Hannity, or O'Reilly correcting their errors concerning "death panels."
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
This was posted on Facebook yesterday, I suspect it may not be a complete list as the paper this morning mentioned sentencing in another case where a man went into an FBI office and declared an intent to assassinate the President.

I was mostly surprised that despite working for a paper and getting to see the front page and highlights, I'd never heard of most of these 'isolated incidents'.
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The part that I find especially terrifying is that these extremist groups actually preach that isolated cells are the proper way to "begin the revolution" or whatever they think they're doing.

This was part of McVeigh's ideology as well: the lone soldier stricking the first blow that will lead to a wave of patriots flooding the corrupt government.

I understand what Jon Stewart was saying and I fundamentally agree, but there's a version of that position, which we see from a few posters here, that so long as examples of bad behavior can be shown on both sides, we cannot condemn anyone.

There's a very real storm brewing, here. Perhaps the Arizona gunman was totally unrelated, I certainly hope that's the case and that I'm completely wrong, but the Southern Poverty Law Center was making these same points about the Militia movement in the 80's and 90's and we know what that turned into.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
I can honestly see him going against the advice of whatever attorney he winds up with and making an FOTL rant on the first day of his trial about how the court is illegitimate because of gold flag fringe or some other such lunacy.
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I see an insanity defense.
 
applecorped said:
Would you defend everyone's right to utter all the above? Personable responsibilty also entails not acting upon inflammatory language, and if one does act upon it in an inappropriate manner accepting that the only one who is at fault is yourself.
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Of course.

But some people LACK the mental capacity for personal responsibility. It's mental illness. And in today's USA, likely to not only be untreated, but likely there is no resource available to get it treated even if the subject presents themself for help.

So, when you use violent rhetoric tied to things they already believe, they can sometimes be motivated to violence.

It's not a new revelation I am giving you here, I know you know this.

So it behooves those whose words go to the general public to bear that in mind when they speak. And that is THEIR personal responsibility.

This stuff has happened before;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting

And if I looked far enough in the past I am sure I could find a similar event motivated by unconsidered "left" rhetoric as well.
 
Biscuit said:
No idea what going on. My friend says his source has gone silent. Probably a little over blown report. Like I said sometime on Saturday - I am just relaying info as I get it.
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Have Roger and Amy come out of the house yet? I want to see if they look like Gomez and Morticia.
 
deepatrax said:
BS...

Maddow had talked about Stockman MONTHS BEFORE she did her Oklahoma city linking video...she knew what the truth was. It wasn't an editing mistake.
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Yes, she did, and she gave the RIGHT information:

March 25, 2010

Maddow: Back in 1995 on the morning of the Oklahoma City bombing, just after the explosion a member of Congress named Steve Stockman (R-TX) was sent a fax touting the bombing. He was sent that fax by somebody in the militia movement. Mr. Stockman later turned that fax over to the FBI. He was never implicated in any way in the bombing itself. But there is a reason that the militia movement trusted a member of Congress enough to go to him with that.
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http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/lies-damned-lies-rachel-maddow/

Obviously, since you've already set yourself on this false equivalency, you're going to say her apology and retraction were in bad faith.

Here are the facts:

She made a false statement in a news piece. She corrected it the next night.

No one is perfect, mistakes happen, responsible people correct them.

Now, link me Hannity, Beck, or O'Reilly apologizing for their ACORN or "death panel" lies/stupidity.
 
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HumanityBlues said:
I thought this was a pretty good analysis of the "right" versus "left" rhetoric in the context of this controversy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyqmZs0VoPw. (The video is Cenk Uygur from the Young Turks Podcast, which I highly recommend).

Good stuff starts around the 5:45 mark if you're impatient.
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Thanks for linking this. I second the recommendation to watch this.

Look at the lists, watch this video, the direction of violence is irrefutable.

I also suggest paying close attention to O'Reilly calling Dr. Tiller, Tiller "the Baby Killer" over and over and over starting around 10min.

THere's a difference between mocking, insulting and attacking opponents and dehumanizing opponents.

I think we can all figure out the difference between "Onward Christian Soldiers" and Bin Laden's call for jihad. If we want to actually confront and deal with this problem, we need to stop playing stupid games and pretending like everything is the same. It isn't.
 
BenBurch said:
And likely it is the truth, too.
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Definitely. This guy was just straight up bonkers. And with his weird love of syllogisms, his youtube profile made me think of a lot of our resident posters (alfa1 in particular, no offense intended).
 
Meadmaker said:
I didn't actually expect much from Stewart, but I decided to watch it, just in case.

It is worth it. My favorite takeaway line:

"I do think it's a worthwhile goal not to conflate our political opponents with enemies, if for no other reason than to draw a better distinction between the manifestoes of paranoid madmen and what passes for acceptable political and pundit speech. It would be really nice if the ramblings of crazy people didn't in any way resemble how we actually talk to each other on TV."
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Yes, that is definitely quote-worthy. I might also add that it would be really nice if the ramblings of crazy people didn't in any way resemble how we actually talk to each other on this forum.

But perhaps that's hoping for too much :rolleyes:
 
MattusMaximus said:
Yes, that is definitely quote-worthy. I might also add that it would be really nice if the ramblings of crazy people didn't in any way resemble how we actually talk to each other on this forum.

But perhaps that's hoping for too much :rolleyes:
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As heated and crazy as a lot of our discourse gets here, I cannot recall any calls for violence against one another.

We're actually doing a bit better than, say, senate and vice-presidential candidates, which is disturbing for a number of reasons.
 
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Orphia Nay said:
Oh, Jon Stewart. You've said so much of what most of us are thinking right now, and so much more. This gave me chills it was so truthful, rational and apt.

Watch this, if you value your brain.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-10-2011/arizona-shootings-reaction

(I'm pretty sure that's the link, but I'm having trouble loading it. I just watched the Jan 10 episode of The Daily Show on TV, and that's apparently the link to the segment. The webosphere is probably going bananas over it at the moment, it was so brilliant.)
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I sent similar praise to TDS immediately after he spoke.
It was brilliant, and much better than what I had anticipated.
 
It's about what I thought after seeing his YT stuff. Maybe rhetoric was an influence, but the main cause is "bats**t crazy".
 
cienaños said:
MattusMaximus,

Just out of curiosity, did you give the link I posted a listen?
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Not yet, but if it's in any way related to a lot of the finger-pointing bilge I've seen here since page 1, then I'm not interested. I've had my fill of the political attacks, period.

I'm still waiting for more evidence before I make up my mind as to what motivated Loughner. And since he's not talking, we may be waiting awhile.
 
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