Chaos Magic

[AkuManiMani]

So, according your line of 'reasoning', drugs (which I had not taken) caused me to have an auditory hallucination which had a sufficient level of intelligence to carry on a lucid conversation, inform me about things I had no prior knowledge of, and possessed enough force to physically manipulate my body...?

Never-minding whatever mangled logic possessed you think that solipsism has anything to do with with the monitor analogy I drew -- just where do you come off on lecturing me about how to apply my critical thinking??

You woos are touchy aren't you? The tone of my posts has been strictly neutral up until this point. Silly me.

I used drugs as an example, and as part of a list of other causes of such experiences. I even put an "or whatever" at the end of the list so that you would know that it was an open-ended list. But I guess I was just being a little too generous with my assessment of your reading ability.

You just don't get it, do you? You are the one rationalizing your experience to the point of absurdity. Or maybe "rationalizing" isn't the right world - let's invent a new one, irrationalizing. What's absurd is that you rank your subjective internal experience higher on the hierarchy of truth than everything humanity has struggled so far to learn about the nature of the universe. Just because you, individually, had a trip, we, collectively need to reevaluate our science-based understanding of reality. There is no possiibty that you are wrong; science must be wrong. You conclude that your personal insight is so profound that it singularly upends facts we know about the objectively existing universe.

Get over yourself.

Okay then, tell me what it is about my account that you think invalidates or contradicts a science-based understanding of reality? Is there anything about my account that you personally -know- to be impossible and would justify all of the vehement denials?

 

[Zanders]

Same as for anything else. Form a hypothesis, run an experiment.

But what if occult practices are the only possible ways to test it?

 

[AkuManiMani]

No, I simply trust my own experience and good sense over the opinions and presumptions of others. Are you seriously suggesting to me that I should defer my responsibly to exercise my own judgement to the presumed authority of others? That I'm being 'egotistical' for not trying to rationalize away my own senses and experiences because they don't conform to a consensus of opinion? Are you %^*@ing serious?

Yes. When you feel a pain in your stomach and vomit blood, do you trust your own experience or go to a doctor? Mental sickness is no different, in fact it is worse because it is effecting your own senses. One does not have to be a raging lunatic in order to experience visual or auditory hallucinations.

First of all, how would trusting one's own experience in anyway suggest that they would not seek help for vomiting blood? A person goes to seek medical attention for painful bloody vomiting precisely because they trust their senses.

Second of all, you know good'n well that the account I gave isn't being denied or downplayed merely because its suggestive of an auditory hallucination. Its being challenged specifically because it suggests the occurrence of something in contraction with what many consider to be possible. A person giving an account of stomach ulcers doesn't garner accusations of trying to "overturn the entirety of scientific knowledge".

Okay then, I'll play along. Lets assume that it was "just" an auditory hallucination. How does that in anyway explain or account for all of what occurred? Detail it to me step-by-step because, apparently, you and some others here seem to think they know what I've experienced better than I do

 

[AkuManiMani]

AkuManiMani said that whatever it was didn't want to be mentioned to anyone else, so is there a chance that whatever it is wants to stay hidden? How would you go about testing something like that?

Theres no need to test or investigate. Apparently, certain individuals already know what really happened even better than the person who experienced it first hand. It was an auditory hallucination; an auditory hallucination that could converse, speak on it's own behalf, and know things the hallucinator could not

 

[PixyMisa]

But what if occult practices are the only possible ways to test it?

Same as for anything else. Form a hypothesis, run an experiment.

 

[PixyMisa]

Theres no need to test or investigate.

No, rather, there is nothing to test or investigate. You have a story.

We can look at the components of the story.

Well I was at a friend's house, helping her get her kids to bed. After they had finally gone to sleep I just held, caressed, and sang her to sleep as well, as she'd been having a really stressful week. Just a few moments after she had fallen asleep I felt what could best be described as a 'spark'-like sensation at the crown of my head [accompanied by that high pitched ringing sound like the one you often hear when a monitor or some other electrical device is turned on] and I felt a presence come over me (ya, I know it sounds sappy, but thats the best way I can describe it).

Those are all signs of a seizure - it sounds like a simple partial seizure, though that's a classification rather than a diagnosis.

A female voice preceded to talk to me as an audible voice in my mind. I was a bit started by this and the voice simply giggled and said "Yes, this is real. All of this is real..." I won't go into the details of what was discussed, as much of it was of a personal nature, but basically we carried on a conversation and at some point she actually physically manipulated my body.

The perception that someone else is manipulating your body is also a seizure symptom.

The female voice also provided information to me about my sleeping friend, and other things, which I had not been aware of previously. When I decided to ask my friend about the information a couple weeks later she confirmed it.

And that couple of weeks is where we likely run into confabulation - that is, your brain has adjusted your memory. This happens to everyone, all the time. You cannot trust your memory in situations like this. There is actually a negative correlation between how certain you are that a memory is accurate and how accurate the memory really is.

Apparently, certain individuals already know what really happened even better than the person who experienced it first hand. It was an auditory hallucination; an auditory hallucination that could converse, speak on it's own behalf, and know things the hallucinator could not

But you have presented no evidence at all that the voice knew things that you could not; you have merely asserted it. Of course, no-one should ever simply accept such an assertion. If you had evidence, we could discuss that.

That assertion aside, what it looks like to me - and I am not, of course, a neurologist or any kind of doctor - is a seizure. You mentioned that it occurred at bedtime at the end of a stressful week, and that also seems significant: stress and lack of sleep are the #1 and #2 seizure triggers.

 

[AkuManiMani]

Theres no need to test or investigate. Apparently, certain individuals already know what really happened even better than the person who experienced it first hand. It was an auditory hallucination; an auditory hallucination that could converse, speak on it's own behalf, and know things the hallucinator could not

No, rather, there is nothing to test or investigate.

Like I said, you already know what I experienced better than I do -- and you didn't even have to test a hypothesis or run any experiments! Your powers of clairvoyance are truly worthy of the MDC. Though I find it ironic that you can tell what another person has experienced from across the internet better than you can yourself. I s'pose every superpower has it's drawbacks, right?

 

[AkuManiMani]

Sorry, I've been busy and overlooked this post, Zanders.

Can you tell me about some of your views and beliefs about the spirit world?

As of now I've no firm beliefs regarding 'the spirit world'. However, I suspect that the term probably refers to whatever collective mental space native practitioners project into and/or to whatever exists beyond our space-time ruleset.

Does consciousness transcend death?

Don't know. Seems plausible at this point.

or are these beings just a totally different kind of intelligence?

The ones I've interacted with exhibit as much intelligence as any human I've talked to. Not sure what you mean by 'different kind of intelligence' but I'd venture a guess that they aren't necessarily human.

Also, do you use recreational drugs often?

No I don't. I can count on one hand the number of times per year I even drink alcohol. Though, I must admit that out of curiosity I took some DMT not long after my encounter. I'd requested some from a class mate earlier in the semester and she just happened to come thru with it on the week following the incident. She recommended that I take it orally and suggested that I only take about 20mg of it as she found that dosage more than enough to produce strong effects. I decided I would do a little experiment: I took twice the dosage she recommended (with some alkaline water) before going to sleep to see what effect it would have on my dreams. The results were pretty interesting...

 

[Zanders]

So, why do you think you have been in contact more than once with the spirit world when most people can't. Are you in to mysticism or the occult?

 

[AkuManiMani]

So, why do you think you have been in contact more than once with the spirit world when most people can't. Are you in to mysticism or the occult?

Actually, I've been an atheist from the age of about 12 or 13 [after giving the issue s'more thought, I eventually found the ignostic position to be more logically tenable] and I'd always been skeptical of supernatural claims even before then. I was never into occult practices as I was never interested and I always considered them silly. I've just had a lot of really bizarre things happen to me in my life [more than can be told in a single sitting]. It seems I'm just a weirdness magnet -- iono what to tell ya *_*

 

[The Norseman]

I might as well say i am controlling what you are doing right now. If you never post again, it is because i am blocking you from doing it with my Illithid powers. If you do, it is because i am using those powers to make you post.

With great power, sadhatter, comes great responsibility.

We're all counting on you to do the former and not latter right thing.

 

[PixyMisa]

Like I said, you already know what I experienced better than I do -- and you didn't even have to test a hypothesis or run any experiments! Your powers of clairvoyance are truly worthy of the MDC. Though I find it ironic that you can tell what another person has experienced from across the internet better than you can yourself. I s'pose every superpower has it's drawbacks, right?

Wrong again. You haven't presented us with anything to test or investigate. You have presented us with a list of what seem to my unqualified eyes to be pretty obvious seizure symptoms; certainly if it happens again I'd suggest you see a doctor.

Now, if you have some actual evidence you wish to discuss, feel free.

Oh, and I'll note that once again you entirely failed to address the points I made.

 

[PixyMisa]

As of now I've no firm beliefs regarding 'the spirit world'. However, I suspect that the term probably refers to whatever collective mental space native practitioners project into

Evidence that any such thing happens, please?

and/or to whatever exists beyond our space-time ruleset.

Evidence that any such thing exists, please?

Don't know. Seems plausible at this point.

Evidence upon which you base this assessment, please?

The ones I've interacted with exhibit as much intelligence as any human I've talked to. Not sure what you mean by 'different kind of intelligence' but I'd venture a guess that they aren't necessarily human.

Evidence that there are any beings involved at all, please?

No I don't. I can count on one hand the number of times per year I even drink alcohol. Though, I must admit that out of curiosity I took some DMT not long after my encounter. I'd requested some from a class mate earlier in the semester and she just happened to come thru with it on the week following the incident. She recommended that I take it orally and suggested that I only take about 20mg of it as she found that dosage more than enough to produce strong effects. I decided I would do a little experiment: I took twice the dosage she recommended (with some alkaline water) before going to sleep to see what effect it would have on my dreams. The results were pretty interesting...

Noted without comment.

 

[Katopale]

I have only cast one chaos magic spell[/B], and it was designed to open my inner eye. I took a leap of faith, betting that faith is a required ingredient in the mental alchemy. It turns out it is.

So it works 100% of the time for you.

How, specifically, did you create your one and only sigil?

I have created many sigils in my time, what was your method?

 

[Craig4]

So what else could one do with chaos magic? Could you use it for remote viewing? How about telekinesis? What is something measurable that one would use chaos magic to accomplish?

 

[Katopale]

So what else could one do with chaos magic? Could you use it for remote viewing? How about telekinesis? What is something measurable that one would use chaos magic to accomplish?

Think of like a toolbox for The Secret. That "law of attraction" bend the universe to your will stuff.

Limbo seems shy about going into the nuts and bolts of these things so I will try and help out.

Sigil basics:

1.Think of what you want (no limits, right Limbo?)

2. Sigilize

Many ways to do this. The important part is that the sigil should not be recognizable as your original wish.

Write it down and then mix up all the shapes of the letters to form a symbol.
Make a symbolic idol out of play-dough.
Make the words into musical notes.
Make up your own way to sigilize.

3.Charge it

Look at, taste or listen to your sigil at the height of a "gnostic" state.
i.e. tripping on shrooms, sex, the best number on Glee.


Example:
I write my intention down and symbolize it. I put the symbol on a stick of gum. My partner chews the gum while we make sweet love.
At simultaneous orgasm we kiss deeply, the taste of the gum charges my sigil.


4.Reap the benefits of your new paradigm.

 

[Craig4]

Think of like a toolbox for The Secret. That "law of attraction" bend the universe to your will stuff.

Limbo seems shy about going into the nuts and bolts of these things so I will try and help out.

Sigil basics:

1.Think of what you want (no limits, right Limbo?)

2. Sigilize

Explain Sigilize to me like I'm a ten year old please. I'm not being an ass here and I've read the thread. I want to design an experiment and make sure I understand everything about how this is done before I do.

 

[Katopale]

Explain Sigilize to me like I'm a ten year old please. I'm not being an ass here and I've read the thread. I want to design an experiment and make sure I understand everything about how this is done before I do.

Sorry Craig,

I accidentally posted in the middle of writing the post. See above.

If you want to do it right and really "get out of your way" make a group of sigils for different intentions.
Have someone retool your sigils so you don't recognize them.
Now they are "blinded".

 

[Katopale]

Another quick example.

Want to stop eating MacDonald's? Use their own powerful sigil against them!

Cut the golden arches from a large fries container. Cut it into pieces and rearrange them into your own "power over MacDonald's sigil".

Go upset a bull moose.
When you are ******** yourself as it charges, look at the sigil to charge it.

 

[sadhatter]

First of all, how would trusting one's own experience in anyway suggest that they would not seek help for vomiting blood? A person goes to seek medical attention for painful bloody vomiting precisely because they trust their senses.

Second of all, you know good'n well that the account I gave isn't being denied or downplayed merely because its suggestive of an auditory hallucination. Its being challenged specifically because it suggests the occurrence of something in contraction with what many consider to be possible. A person giving an account of stomach ulcers doesn't garner accusations of trying to "overturn the entirety of scientific knowledge".

Okay then, I'll play along. Lets assume that it was "just" an auditory hallucination. How does that in anyway explain or account for all of what occurred? Detail it to me step-by-step because, apparently, you and some others here seem to think they know what I've experienced better than I do

See you miss the point of my post entirely.

You experienced a hallucination. Which is no different than experiencing any other medical symptom ( such as vomiting blood.). Now instead of seeing a doctor about it you say you trust your senses that it is something that is not a symptom of any kind of medical condition ( including stress related disorders. And before you say you wern't going through stress, look up stress related disorders. One doesn't have to be losing their house, have their car stolen and stub their toe to feel the effects. ).

This is exactly the same as vomiting blood and saying " oh that is a sign from my god to donate to my religion. ". Sure, you might think that, but it doesn't make it true.

And go through your case point by point? From what you will tell us, you experienced a standard hallucinatory episode. And any evidence to the contrary you refuse to tell us.

Your telling us a tall tale and then saying a magic force told you not to tell evidence. Just wondering, at what point yesterday do you think i was born?

And that is the problem with woo, once someone does take the time to cut the fat from the posts of people like yourself, what we are left with is a very basic claim, and a very basic "out". In your case, the claim being you heard a voice, the "out" ( something that you put in the story to not have to provide proof. ) is that the magic force told you not to tell people. This is one of the oldest cons in the book, Joseph Smith pulled it off pretty well, but you my friend are no Joseph Smith.