Chaos Magic

[Dancing David]

What makes it a malady that needs curing? Do you even know what hes talking about?

Do you? Gnosis tends to be unique to the individual and not universal.

 

[Dancing David]

QFL

Quoted for lies?
Huh?

 

[Dancing David]

You're dealin' with a really rough crowd here. You're gonna have to be prepared to clarify and re-clarify before you get to the point where some people start getting into the groove of that you're trying to convey. The ones who really want to understand and the ones who just wanna 'woo'-bash will make themselves apparent eventually :-/

Yes and no, that is the process of the JREF, 75% of the conversations are about definitions and usage, then there is usually a discussion of what evidence there is to support the assertions. Often when people use idiomatic language that they think has meaning to them, in fact they don't really know what they think, at other times it turns out their idiom has clarity and coherence and therefore the discussion of the context and usage allow the conversation to proceed.

Limbo seems to just ignore people who differ in opinion, many of us are not here to woo bash but discuss.

 

[Dancing David]

True, but if I were a teacher I would have authority. And if I had authority, I would give you all reading assingments and mystical exercises to perform. Then, I would not have to explain and defend myself to uninitiated, ignorant students who think they already know it all, so what is there to learn?

A good teachers still has to explain and defend their, that is part of the proecss of critical thought. A crucial difference between education and indoctrination as well.

The teacher in particular should be aware that they do not know it all and do not have any special understanding, they have experience and practice.

"The more I know the more I understand the less I know." sort of thing.

 

[Dancing David]

Many things, many ages. There's always (at least) few who already think they know everything. I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to derail your thread. I was just chuckling at your assumption that being a teacher automatically grants you authority.

So true, so true, authority is non-existant. A teacher needs many skills, authority is not among them.

Imposition of order equals escalation of chaos, especially in grade school.

 

[Dancing David]

Could you please give some details about this spirit contact? Did you actually hear her voice and/or see an image of her? Or did you sense her thoughts like telepathy? If anyone else were there would they have seen/heard/sensed the same things that you did?

Um the unfortunately will border on the Fight Club, the first rule about Fight Club ...

Different people tend to start the conversation with their psyche in different ways, and different traditions have different means as well, for some it is an internal dialogue, for others it is through interpretive divination, others have visual understandings. It tends to be idiomatic in expression and vary from person to person.

The main issue as discussed earlier is that most people are reluctant to actually write these things down and record the results, therefore the issue of confirmation bias is hard to control for. I have two cases of such events (and others) that stand out clearly, and hundreds that did not come to pass.

Now it is important to note that many people train and use these skills everyday and become proficient at it in their line of work, we all have intuition and pattern matching in us. As a social worker one of the skills that you learn and use is the ability to try to understand other people and put your self in their position. This requires a fair amount of training and practice, the hard part being extending your empathy but not your sympathy, and then withdrawing to the objective space.

You develop a way of 'completing the picture' to fill in the missing blanks so it then guides the next set of questions you ask. Now what is really interesting is one you sit back and dissect the process to try to understand the 'tells' that you perceive and bring them into conscious use.

 

[AkuManiMani]

Could you please give some details about this spirit contact? Did you actually hear her voice and/or see an image of her? Or did you sense her thoughts like telepathy? If anyone else were there would they have seen/heard/sensed the same things that you did?

Well I was at a friend's house, helping her get her kids to bed. After they had finally gone to sleep I just held, caressed, and sang her to sleep as well, as she'd been having a really stressful week. Just a few moments after she had fallen asleep I felt what could best be described as a 'spark'-like sensation at the crown of my head [accompanied by that high pitched ringing sound like the one you often hear when a monitor or some other electrical device is turned on] and I felt a presence come over me (ya, I know it sounds sappy, but thats the best way I can describe it).

A female voice preceded to talk to me as an audible voice in my mind. I was a bit started by this and the voice simply giggled and said "Yes, this is real. All of this is real..." I won't go into the details of what was discussed, as much of it was of a personal nature, but basically we carried on a conversation and at some point she actually physically manipulated my body. The female voice also provided information to me about my sleeping friend, and other things, which I had not been aware of previously. When I decided to ask my friend about the information a couple weeks later she confirmed it. It was then that I decided to inform her of what had happened to me that night. My friend then revealed that she'd had similar experiences in the preceding months.

And before you ask; no, I do not have a history of psychiatric illness. I've had similar encounters to this on a few other occasions of my life but they were usually during altered states between waking/sleeping or under the effect of a psychoactive drug.

ETA: No, I didn't actually see her. I only experienced her as a 'presence' and a voice. The voice seemed to be coming from directly above me and over my right shoulder at various points during the encounter. I was thinking at the time that whatever this entity was, it was interacting directly with my nervous system to communicate with me and manipulate my body.

 

[Zanders]

Well I was at a friend's house, helping her get her kids to bed. After they had finally gone to sleep I just held, caressed, and sang her to sleep as well, as she'd been having a really stressful week. Just a few moments after she had fallen asleep I felt what could best be described as a 'spark'-like sensation at the crown of my head [accompanied by that high pitched ringing sound like the one you often hear when a monitor or some other electrical device is turned on] and I felt a presence come over me (ya, I know it sounds sappy, but thats the best way I can describe it).

A female voice preceded to talk to me as an audible voice in my mind. I was a bit started by this and the voice simply giggled and said "Yes, this is real. All of this is real..." I won't go into the details of what was discussed, as much of it was of a personal nature, but basically we carried on a conversation and at some point she actually physically manipulated my body. The female voice also provided information to me about my sleeping friend, and other things, which I had not been aware of previously. When I decided to ask my friend about the information a couple weeks later she confirmed it. It was then that I decided to inform her of what had happened to me that night. My friend then revealed that she'd had similar experiences in the preceding months.

And before you ask; no, I do not have a history of psychiatric illness. I've had similar encounters to this on a few other occasions of my life but they were usually during altered states between waking/sleeping or under the effect of a psychoactive drug.

ETA: No, I didn't actually see her. I only experienced her as a 'presence' and a voice. The voice seemed to be coming from directly above me and over my right shoulder at various points during the encounter. I was thinking at the time that whatever this entity was, it was interacting directly with my nervous system to communicate with me and manipulate my body.

See, it is the numerous cases of things such as this that I don't find explained well enough by skeptics. I try to be skeptical, but I just hear so many cases of this that there almost has to be some sort of truth to it. The high pitched ringing sound is also commonly mentioned, and I don't know how anyone can explain finding stuff out about people that you would have had no mundane explanation for knowing. And how could you lab test such things anyway?

Would you ind telling me what kind of things about her it told you? Not the personal details, just what of kinds of things.

 

[AkuManiMani]

See, it is the numerous cases of things such as this that I don't find explained well enough by skeptics. I try to be skeptical, but I just hear so many cases of this that there almost has to be some sort of truth to it. The high pitched ringing sound is also commonly mentioned, and I don't know how anyone can explain finding stuff out about people that you would have had no mundane explanation for knowing.

Would you ind telling me what kind of things about her it told you? Not the personal details, just what of things.

She mentioned that I had "chose her well [my friend]" and alluded to some odd experiences she's had. She also mentioned some things about me and seemed to be subjecting me to some kind of examination, making comments about my physical and spiritual state as she went along. I can't say much more without going into personal detail but I've had way too many experiences like this [some even more incredible than the one I've just described] to discount them anymore.

I've started taking these experiences at face value, as rationalization and denial aren't exactly practices I prefer to indulge in.

 

[tsig]

Quoted for lies?
Huh?

Quoted for limbo

 

[Zanders]

She mentioned that I had "chose her well [my friend]" and alluded to some odd experiences she's had. She also mentioned some things about me and seemed to be subjecting me to some kind of examination, making comments about my physical and spiritual state as she went along. I can't say much more without going into personal detail but I've had way too many experiences like this [some even more incredible than the one I've just described] to discount them anymore.

I've started taking these experiences at face value, as rationalization and denial aren't exactly practices I prefer to indulge in.

Why do you think they are doing this to you, and not some of the many people that are seeking out experiences like this? Also, was the odd experience the thing that you asked her about and found to be true? Was it specific, or something general that could be loosely applied with confirmation bias?

And if you have never had a history of being delusional, are you sure you didn't start with that one event? The feeling in your brain sounds like there might be something wrong, you might aught to get that checked.

 

[Dancing David]

Quoted for limbo

Sorry, I misunderstood, which is why I asked. Carry on, I don't think Limbo will care, I hope that maybe some lurker will read it and study before they practice.

I hope Limbo finds peace and does not crack.

 

[Dancing David]

She mentioned that I had "chose her well [my friend]" and alluded to some odd experiences she's had. She also mentioned some things about me and seemed to be subjecting me to some kind of examination, making comments about my physical and spiritual state as she went along. I can't say much more without going into personal detail but I've had way too many experiences like this [some even more incredible than the one I've just described] to discount them anymore.

I've started taking these experiences at face value, as rationalization and denial aren't exactly practices I prefer to indulge in.

They are experiences at face value, and their validity can be remarkable or trivial.

The brain spends most of its time generating patterns and creating patterns, semi dream states are one of teh best ways to activate the pattern mechanism, I never heard voice, I have has some great visions, some true many, many false.

 

[Zanders]

I'm not really sure how to explain away the numerous cases where people with no history of mental problems have experiences such as the one mentioned by AkuManiMani Anyone want to take a stab at it?

All of the cases like this are why I take so much time reading in to it.

 

[tsig]

Sorry, I misunderstood, which is why I asked. Carry on, I don't think Limbo will care, I hope that maybe some lurker will read it and study before they practice.

I hope Limbo finds peace and does not crack.

I must be on ignore also.

 

[tsig]

I'm not really sure how to explain away the numerous cases where people with no history of mental problems have experiences such as the one mentioned by AkuManiMani Anyone want to take a stab at it?

All of the cases like this are why I take so much time reading in to it.

However, individuals may hear voices without suffering from diagnosable mental illness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_hallucination

On one hand we know we can be fooled, we know of no way to fool the laws of physics.

 

[Resume]

However, individuals may hear voices without suffering from diagnosable mental illness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_hallucination

On one hand we know we can be fooled, we know of no way to fool the laws of physics.

Zanders:

In all seriousness I think it's important to pay particular attention to this post.

 

[Moss]

I'm not really sure how to explain away the numerous cases where people with no history of mental problems have experiences such as the one mentioned by AkuManiMani Anyone want to take a stab at it?

All of the cases like this are why I take so much time reading in to it.

A friend of mine had the "joy" of suffering from auditory hallucinations as a sideeffect of new medication. Suffice to say she quickly changed it.
There is also the possibility of auditory pareidolia and apophenia.

 

[Zanders]

A friend of mine had the "joy" of suffering from auditory hallucinations as a sideeffect of new medication. Suffice to say she quickly changed it.
There is also the possibility of auditory pareidolia and apophenia.

Well, first I would like to ask AkuManiMani how specific the information he received was.

 

[slingblade]

When I was a child, I had read the story of Samuel, and how he heard the lord calling to him:

:4 That the LORD called Samuel: and he answered,
Here am I.
:5 And he ran unto Eli, and said,
Here am I; for thou calledst me.
And he said,
I called not;
lie down again.
And he went and lay down.
:6 And the LORD called yet again,
Samuel.
And Samuel arose and went to Eli, and said,
Here am I; for thou didst call me.
And he answered,
I called not, my son;
lie down again.
:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD,
neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him.

:8 And the LORD called Samuel again the third time.
And he arose and went to Eli, and said,
Here am I; for thou didst call me.
And Eli perceived that the LORD had called the child.

Several times, a similar thing happened to me. I'd be just starting to fall asleep, and I would hear my name called. Except it wasn't god, it was my mother's voice I "heard." But she wasn't calling me. I'd check. Sometimes, she'd also be asleep, too, so I knew it hadn't been her.

And I heard that voice as clearly as I heard any other, while wide awake. It was freaking creepy!

It had also been suggested to me, through reading that story, and my mind simply pulled a familiar voice from my memory and replayed it.