The Skeleton Key to Mystical Interpretation

[tsig]

Look at me,I'm wonderful?

That seems to be the message that I always get from these mystical types.

I closed my eyes and experienced the hypostatic union with Christ You can kiss my ring and buy my book now.

 

[tsig]

"No."

Is that some of that mystical insight you wanted to share with us? Does your "no" mean no or are you trying do demonstrate the negativity you feel here?

Why post here if it is draining to you?

 

[tsig]

I don't understand why implying you're mistaking physical bliss through endorphin rushes as mystical experiences warrants being ignored. I think it hits rather close to home.

I'm also fascinated by the archtypes that resound throughout all human myth. I've stood before a council like gathering of over a dozen alien entities under the influence of DMT in a "place" that felt more real than reality has ever felt before overlapping "above" this reality, but I don't make the mistake of letting my own animal limitations and predisposed behaviors limit or blur my understanding of what seems real to me. The fact you're so willing to decide on their absolute reality to the point you see connections with other factors in reality as symbols slightly disturbs me. You out of most should be wary of believing something is real just because it seems and feels absolutely real, when you're using analogues that mimic the very chemicals we create reality from.

Again and again I see you claiming you're here to amuse yourself at our close mindedness. And again and again I see you reacting with incredulity at times where it seems people question you too close to home. You write off people as "hounds" for questioning and challenging intellectually. You chastise others for not respecting belief systems, while belittling their own views as close minded, arrogant, and limited.
For someone who has transcended reality and attained higher states, you seem profoundly petty. I can't blame you really. You're only being human.

You're rocking his pedestal.

ETA: The contrast between his claimed mental state and his actions say all that needs to be said.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

And if I have to put every JREFer on ignore in order to dance to it, then thats what I will do.

I'm sure posting to a forum on which you can read no posts other than your own would be a wholly productive use of your time.

 

[D'rok]

Its basically understanding and interacting with the world via intuitional and emotional faculties as opposed to primarily utilizing one's external senses and intellect. Its a mode of operating that is virtually antithetical to the personality types of most posters here [afterall, this a skeptic's forum ]. Basically the OP is a liberal arts and humanities nerd crashing a party of science and engineering geeks -- with predictable results... >_>

There are plenty of liberal arts and humanities nerds (hi there - I'm one) who reject emotional and intuitive "knowing" as the best means of unpacking our existence.

We are emotional, irrational, intuitive monkeys. But we can do better.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

There are plenty of liberal arts and humanities nerds (hi there - I'm one) who reject emotional and intuitive "knowing" as the best means of unpacking our existence.

We are emotional, irrational, intuitive monkeys. But we can do better.

Yes, I knew there was another post I wanted to reply to. You've said basically what I wanted to say.

I'm totally involved in the arts. My job is wholly concerned with the arts, albeit a technical side of it (I'm a sound engineer). I've spent my whole life around arty things and as a musician. Intuition and emotion are absolutely key to my work and my life.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not also rational and practical. It certainly doesn't mean that I have to believe that someone experiencing things while on psychotropic drugs that they wouldn't experience while not on psychotropic drugs is experiencing anything that cannot be explained wholly mundanely by the chemical effects that we know these drugs have on the brain.

I have to say that what I find interesting so far about Limbo's posting is not that he's had a fair few people who disagree with his interpretation of the events he's reported, but that of the few posters who believe in the same things he's talking about, none of them are questioning whether his interpretation of what's happening is true. Surely just because you personally believe in, say, a collective unconscious or the ability to cast spells doesn't mean that everybody who claims that they have visited the collective unconscious or have cast spells actually have done so, does it? Yet what he claims seems to be accepted at face value without the possibility of him being mistaken being considered.

 

[Chucky]

"Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion)[1] is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. Mysticism usually centers on a practice or practices intended to nurture those experiences or awareness. Mysticism may be dualistic, maintaining a distinction between the self and the divine, or may be nondualistic. Differing religious traditions have described this fundamental mystical experience in different ways..."

Its basically understanding and interacting with the world via intuitional and emotional faculties as opposed to primarily utilizing one's external senses and intellect. Its a mode of operating that is virtually antithetical to the personality types of most posters here [afterall, this a skeptic's forum ]. Basically the OP is a liberal arts and humanities nerd crashing a party of science and engineering geeks -- with predictable results... >_>

That's fine, I have a liberal arts degree and yet... I find that emotion and intuition are an integral part of being human and we all rely on them to one extent or another. For instance I'm a fairly affable guy, but I'm not much fun to be around the first 1/2 hour or so when I wake to go to work. I've been grumpy, greedy, angered or lustful and emotion and intuition have extract stupidity and hurtfulness on my part. The problem with those internals is that they can be highly variable. Basing decisions primarily on emotion and intuition has lead me and others I know into horrible decisions in our lives.

Often when we realize we knew better, that was because logic and reason, had they been listened to could have averted those sad events. Sometimes they aid our reason and give a fullness to life, but not so much when they are in great, constant disagreement with the measurable. What are the problems with external senses and intellect? I find a little thought, an extra look around and and trust go a long way towards living well. How can we gauge the internal without them?

I find it hard to believe that minimizing ones intellect and external senses hobbles us when we deal with the world around us. How can that be? And how can one learn to question without them? Ignoring sense and senses leads to catastrophic events with a igh degree of certainty. Do you actually navigate through the day with eyes closed and simple acceptance of what you are told without thinking things through? I doubt it. Why is it wrong to first find as many truths that can be found with the intellect and awareness of the world around us? How do we fail by starting with as much accuracy as we can trust, before venturing into the world of the mystical?

That is if it exists at all, but I'll assume here that it does. Yet can you demonstrate why it is less beneficial for me to rely first on reason and intellect and knowledge of the world around me?

 

[D'rok]

Yes, I knew there was another post I wanted to reply to. You've said basically what I wanted to say.

I'm totally involved in the arts. My job is wholly concerned with the arts, albeit a technical side of it (I'm a sound engineer). I've spent my whole life around arty things and as a musician. Intuition and emotion are absolutely key to my work and my life.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not also rational and practical. It certainly doesn't mean that I have to believe that someone experiencing things while on psychotropic drugs that they wouldn't experience while not on psychotropic drugs is experiencing anything that cannot be explained wholly mundanely by the chemical effects that we know these drugs have on the brain.

Agree 100%. Denying that we are intuitive and emotional beings is silly and can take away much of the joy of life. These things just need perspective - they are aspects of how we experience existence, not keys to an accurate understanding of objective reality.

I have to say that what I find interesting so far about Limbo's posting is not that he's had a fair few people who disagree with his interpretation of the events he's reported, but that of the few posters who believe in the same things he's talking about, none of them are questioning whether his interpretation of what's happening is true. Surely just because you personally believe in, say, a collective unconscious or the ability to cast spells doesn't mean that everybody who claims that they have visited the collective unconscious or have cast spells actually have done so, does it? Yet what he claims seems to be accepted at face value without the possibility of him being mistaken being considered.

I think it boils down to something that he (she? - I dunno) said in the Chaos Magic thread - "Everything is true. Everything is permitted".

There couldn't be a more complete philosophical dead end than that.

 

[Limbo]

There couldn't be a more complete philosophical dead end than that.

Try nothing is true, nothing is permitted.

 

[D'rok]

Try nothing is true, nothing is permitted.

Try false choice fallacy. Why can't you find a middle ground between everything is true and nothing is true?

 

[Limbo]

Try false choice fallacy. Why can't you find a middle ground between everything is true and nothing is true?

Why can't you see that I have?

 

[D'rok]

Why can't you see that I have?

Because you said precisely the opposite. I can't read your mind, only your posts.

 

[Limbo]

Because you said precisely the opposite. I can't read your mind, only your posts.

Shall we go back and take a closer look at exactly what was said? Usually when that happens I am vindicated, because you guys misunderstand me so often.

 

[D'rok]

Shall we go back and take a closer look at exactly what was said? Usually when that happens I am vindicated, because you guys misunderstand me so often.

Thank for editing that and pre-empting my snarky reply.

I'm listening. Explain what "Everything is true. Everything is permitted" means in the context of mystical enquiry.

 

[tsig]

There are plenty of liberal arts and humanities nerds (hi there - I'm one) who reject emotional and intuitive "knowing" as the best means of unpacking our existence.

We are emotional, irrational, intuitive monkeys. But we can do better.

Hence science, which is an attempt to minimize the effects of our emotional, irrational and intuitive natures when we study the world.

Allowing feeling to become facts seems a giant step backward. I'd rather the pilot of my plane did a walk around inspection than introspection.

 

[tsig]

I'm sure posting to a forum on which you can read no posts other than your own would be a wholly productive use of your time.

Well he doesn't seem to listen to anyones opinion but his own so nothing has really changed.

 

[Limbo]

Thank for editing that and pre-empting my snarky reply.

NP. I'm making efforts.

I'm listening. Explain what "Everything is true. Everything is permitted" means in the context of mystical enquiry.

Its a mantra to aid the chaos magician in paradigm shifting.

 

[PixyMisa]

Its a mantra to aid the chaos magician in paradigm shifting.

And that accomplishes what, exactly?

 

[D'rok]

Its a mantra to aid the chaos magician in paradigm shifting.

I understand the concept of deconstruction preceding reconstruction. It is invaluable in most forms of enquiry. But as is true with post-modernism, there seems to be no means of checking your post-deconstruction intuitions against reality once you begin the reconstruction. (In the case of post-modernism, reconstruction is usually precluded altogether.)

 

[Limbo]

I understand the concept of deconstruction preceding reconstruction. It is invaluable in most forms of enquiry. But as is true with post-modernism, there seems to be no means of checking your post-deconstruction intuitions against reality once you begin the reconstruction. (In the case of post-modernism, reconstruction is usually precluded altogether.)

If the intent is to check, then thats what the magic will do. Its about intent. If you intend for an effect that is overt and strong enough to provide you with a means of checking, then thats what you will get. Just be prepared to be freaked out, or your own mental weakness will be an inhibitive effect.