bigjelmapro
Illuminator
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What you stated above and what you linked are not the conclusions made in that article, ie:
Your conclusions are quite comical.
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Gaza - A 5 Star Concentration Camp *****
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Your conclusions are quite comical.
But you said definitively that they aren't.
There's zero evidence that any individual is directly related to any other group from 2000 years ago. But that doesn't make people's claims to a cultural heritage 2,000 years old any less valid. Britons still take pride in Arthurian legends. The French are proud of Charlemagne. The Italians of ROman Republic, and the Greeks of the accomplishments of Periclean Athens. There's no evidence that any Frenchman are descended from the Charlemagne's Franks, that any Greeks are directly descended from Athenian democracy, or that Italians are directly descended from the Roman populi.
History doesn't offer "evidence" in that manner. However, the conclusions that such peoples are directly descended is strong. Why? because historians are aware of the history of those populations. We know that the descendants of the Frankish people living in that region in 1000 AD are still living there, though they have married and mingled with people from all over the world. We know the Greeks who lived in Peloponesia in 1200 BCE still live there, even though they have been invaded by Arabs, Turks, Italians, and others.
We also know that the Judeans who entered the Diaspora have been self-identifying as Jews continuously from 70CE to the present. They have intermingled with Moors, Spaniards, Germans, Eastern Europeans and other, but does not eradicate their descent from Judeans.
The genetic evidence you supply lends credence to the theory that Diaspora Jews have descendants who lived in the Levant during the days of Judea. It doesn't contradict it.
Nor is it necessary for "ALL" Jews to have descent from Judeans for Jews to claim a cultural heritage to Ancient Judea, just as we don't require all greeks to have been descended from Periclean Athenians for Greece to claim a cultural heritage to Ancient Greece.
Then you should write to the scientific journals that have published these studies and make your accusations of fraud. Those are serious charges you are leveling, and if the scientists are unable to show how they derived their facts and figures, they will be cast out of the scientific community.
Since genetic research did not exist until the 1990's, it's not "convenient". Any genetic research was by necessity going to occur when the Middle East was tense. The Middle East has been tense since the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1918.
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why is this the only research I have seen, on an ethnic basis?
is there comparable research of the British people to see where they are from?
the Irish?
the Germans?
the Chinese?
....if this research had been done by the Nazis, during the 1930s, and it came up with similar conclusions, it would have been labeled as anti-Semitic racism. it is an anti-Semites dream come true.
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Because Jews are a people who have been considered outsiders wherever they lived for 2000 years. Other peoples in similar circumstances have also been studied. For example, the Roma.
Why if the only research you have seen about Jews? I don't know. Possibly because you never looked for other research?
Yes.
Yes.
Haven't seen that one yet. But I'm not actually in the field.
edited to add. Oh, wait. Found it.
Yes.
But it wasn't. Genetic investigation of racial origins is being done all over the world and the only one who sees prejudice in its implementation is you.
Genetic research is becoming a huge boon to historians, showing them the historical migrations of peoples, confirming or denying theories of Aryan migration, Hun invasions, Viking travels, Chinese expansion and all sorts of other historical mysteries. It's a great time to be an historian.
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Toontown
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OK, so Hamas, flush with ill-gotten wealth, plans to build some strategically designed apartment complexes for use as human shields. And, since any military force hiding behind human shields is falsely believed to be inviolate, it seems that what is envisioned is hordes of ersatz "Palestinians" sitting in front row seats, watching Hamas rockets roar overhead toward Israel from the safety and comfort of their strategically designed high rise apartments.
Yep. That's the way to put an end to "war". Make sure both sides are as numerous, comfortable, fat, and happy as possible. Hold the militarily stronger side to a "higher standard". Make it a "war crime" for the stronger "higher standard" side to kill anyone on the "other" side, while the "other" side is merely expected to commit war crimes on a regular basis, as a playfield-leveling strategy. Thereby evening up the odds and ensuring the "war's" indefinite continuation.
But now we're talking about heredity. Hmm. Wonder why? Ah, I see. Looks like a parallel attempt to disenfranchise the "Jews" by virtue of the impurity of their Middle Eastern blood.
It is to laugh. Or would be to laugh if I could claim membership in a different species.
Yep. That's the way to put an end to "war". Make sure both sides are as numerous, comfortable, fat, and happy as possible. Hold the militarily stronger side to a "higher standard". Make it a "war crime" for the stronger "higher standard" side to kill anyone on the "other" side, while the "other" side is merely expected to commit war crimes on a regular basis, as a playfield-leveling strategy. Thereby evening up the odds and ensuring the "war's" indefinite continuation.
But now we're talking about heredity. Hmm. Wonder why? Ah, I see. Looks like a parallel attempt to disenfranchise the "Jews" by virtue of the impurity of their Middle Eastern blood.
It is to laugh. Or would be to laugh if I could claim membership in a different species.
Do you have any evidence of this population not being due to a massive number of Judeans. Because from the sources cited in Constantine's Sword (by James Carroll, published by Houghton Miifflin), that's exactly what it was. However, between 60CE and 300 CE, due to Roman persecution, the world's Jewish population was cut in half and scattered. The numbers are comparable to the Holocaust in Germany, except that it took the Romans a lot longer to kill that many Jews as it took Nazi Germany.
This whole ancestry thing is a massive red herring. If I remember Dawkins " The Ancestors Tale" correctly, we are all related to everybody who was alive 2000 years ago.
DC
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the same way i know, many germans were practicing judaism; reading.
ie... ashkanazi; the per se lineage via genetics, has many of germany and africa, who now live in israel (south africa too; aparatheid)
a lie to you is truth
thank you
I do find that maintaining truth and reality as the scope is weird to the unlearned
Gaza is a concentration camp, created on bigotry; fact!
like it, dont like it....................
i care (on this subject) about others being able to see that people are being unjustly oppressed.
DC
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so has every line of mankind, from most of the others during many periods throughout history. That does not justify, 1.5 million in a concentration camp (gaza).
I am persecuting any bigot that believes what happened 2000, 1000, 100 years ago, is a reason to believe, what is occuring in the middle east is okey dokey.
ie... if you believe that anyone has a right over that land and to oppresse because of religious belief and talemud, then you and i are are on opposite sides of the spectrum.
There is no reason, israel should exist because of ww2. And there is no reason for oppression by force because on religious group believes they have a right because of 20000000 years of biased historical accounting.
ie.... if the good guys are truly compassionate, then no one would hate YOU!
jew aint a race, get over it!
Judaistic adherants are beleivers and if you think it is a race, you be a deceiver.
Take it from a straight one DIRECTLY!
genetics are good and if you want a sample from me, then you could have evidence, that even during moses, krishna, alexander the great, even noah, shem and muhammad; you and i both have bloodlines that go back all the way to them days. We all equal then and now!
ie.... procreation is simply a living cell division (adam, giving a rib to make an eve; cell division; a life giving a portion of itself to live into the next generation). And that mean, a part of every mother and father since day one is still alive within us all, right now. and to know that, they are raised (to the flesh)
and if you DISHONOR your mother and father, you will lie to me, just like a command breaking fool! ie.... honor mom and pop (all your whole lineage) by doing good (support life to continie).
ie.. we are a life, that can create and live forever knowing it. (gen 3:22)
take it from a little horny one Dan 7:8.
gaza is the concentration camp of our generation and if any are human with that scope for love, you will evolve and keep that compassionate awareness as the forefront of your heart, over any bigotted dividing.
we in that time and only you (each who can think) can make the difference.
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DC
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There is no concentration camp in Gaza. Get your facts straight.
NWO Sentryman
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If Gaza were a concentration camp, then please provide evidence that:
Exactly, which is why Thudnder's assertion that Jews cannot trace their heritage to the Levant is false. If everyone can, certainly the Jews can too.
I don't believe anybody has said that.
Too late. You can't undo 60 years of history. We have to deal with what exists in the present and try to improve it.
I have no idea what any of this is supposed to mean or how it relates to anything in this thread.
It is not a concentration camp and using such incendiary language is not going to help you convince people otherwise.
I know of NO ONE who has had any genetic testing, that can link them to ancestors in the Middle East.
Therefore, I know of no Jews who can prove their ancestors were ancient Judeans, Roman converts, converts in Asia Minor, etc etc.
I do know, however, that we got a lot of green eyed/blue eyed folks in our family. And I was born with blond hair and still have red hair in my beard.
This is an argument from personal incredulity and thus a fallacy. You made this "argument" in post 200, and its fallacious nature was explained to you in post 203, which you have ignored. But your ignoring does not make it go away, and everybody who follows this thread can see your disingenuous attempts to ignore that your argument was addressed and rebutted.
Israel wasn't created because of the nazi's and in some sense that wouldn't have been the true cause for it's existance if that was the case than their would also be a country for the roma. while by all means I can't disagree that the roma would deserve their own land. as does any nation. In this case I'm using roma as short for romani, hwoever the roma are a subset of the ethnicity of the romani.
most of what I said is oftopic but it's actually also more than 60 years of history but actually more than 80 years of history dating back to the world war one period and the preparation for the the last days of the Ottoman empire.
most of what I said is oftopic but it's actually also more than 60 years of history but actually more than 80 years of history dating back to the world war one period and the preparation for the the last days of the Ottoman empire.
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I don't think there would have been much if any international support of a seperate Jewish state, if not for the Holocaust.
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