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From Cracked: 5 ridiculous things you probably believe about Islam

KingMerv00 said:
The Bible calls for the death penalty for a number of stupid things. Many of them dumber than apostasy.
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The Bible (NT - one of Paul's letters) actually also calls for the veiling of women, and it was customary among many Christian women for ages to at least cover the hair when going to church, and still is in some parts.
 
boyntonstu said:
Let's see:

One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc.

On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches.

Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country?

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?
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Although none that I know recently, you are aware that a lot of autodafé for heresy and apostasy happened in the past, right ?
 
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Agatha said:
Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here.
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While the article itself is ok - its supposed to be humor therefore correct and well-balanced arguments are not top priority - its strange if anyone thinks, that people critical of islam do not know those arguments and might change their position by reading that article.

One gets to know those arguments or variations thereof roughly 5 mins after one starts to inquire living persons or internet upon the subject, whether there is anything more problematic about islam than about christianity.
 
Except I don't think most people do any kind of inquiry. They use speech just to profess belonging to some group. If their group of bigots bleats "Islam demands burqas!!!" or "Islam is against science!!!", they nod approvingly and wait their turn to bleat the same thing and reassure the group that they are indeed that conformist. And everyone nods in return.

A lot of people seem genuinely confused and surprised when you ask them to support such claims or use proper logic, instead of nodding and bleating the same canned slogans right back. You must be some kind of evil person or that favourite strawman of wingnuts, the "useful idiot", if you don't automatically agree with the canned list of slogans.
 
Carn said:
While the article itself is ok - its supposed to be humor therefore correct and well-balanced arguments are not top priority - its strange if anyone thinks, that people critical of islam do not know those arguments and might change their position by reading that article.

One gets to know those arguments or variations thereof roughly 5 mins after one starts to inquire living persons or internet upon the subject, whether there is anything more problematic about islam than about christianity.
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I think you're thinking of the wrong audience. Yes, for people who have actually read something about Islam, the article won't bring anything new. But the great unwashed masses, so to say, who picked up something on Fox and just parrot the usual stereotypes, the article indeed gives new insights and challenges their ill-founded opinions.
 
ddt said:
I think you're thinking of the wrong audience. Yes, for people who have actually read something about Islam, the article won't bring anything new. But the great unwashed masses, so to say, who picked up something on Fox and just parrot the usual stereotypes, the article indeed gives new insights and challenges their ill-founded opinions.
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Second post from agatha:
"Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here."

One spends normally a few mins on some subject before coming to a forum to start a discussion about a subject.
 
Aepervius said:
Although none that I know recently, you are aware that a lot of autodafé for heresy and apostasy happened in the past, right ?
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Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?

Is a reformed Alcoholic the same as an Alcoholic?

You betcha, if s/he is driving a car in your direction.
 
boyntonstu said:
Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?
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To show that while Islam certainly has a current problem with fundamentalism and radicalism among far too many of its adherents, at its core it's no different in what its holy writings demand than what Christianity's holy writings demand.

And things like al-Qaeda's terrorism and the Muslim Brotherhood's Islamism no more mean that the religion itself and all its followers are innately and immutably violent and backward and intolerant than things like Charlemagne's massacres of pagans and the Inqusition meant that Christianity and all its followers are innately and immutably violent and backward and intolerant.

Is a reformed Alcoholic the same as an Alcoholic?

You betcha, if s/he is driving a car in your direction.
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Yes, but the fact that one alcoholic reformed means that others can too.
 
boyntonstu said:
Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?
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Why do you believe that death sentences for apostates is something that is "now happening"? How many such death sentences have been carried out in the last ten years throughout the entire world?
 
boyntonstu said:
Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?
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Dunno, why do you do that? Because I've had it up to here with bigoted ideas about the Islam based on some verse from the 7'th century, and pretending that it applies to all Muslims everywhere, right now.

And usually for bonus points having to take it out of context too to sound worse. E.g., snipping half a verse about a war of defense and making it sound like some obligation to be aggressive. Just take the time to read the whole page when the next list of verses supposedly proving that Islam is evil comes around, and see if you can get even one that wasn't carved out of context for that list.

I figure, then at the very least I can dig for such quotes in your holy book too, right?

So yes, I'm asking the same question of the opposite camp: why _do_ you take something from almost a millennium and a half ago and pretend you're talking about the present? If you have no problem accepting that about 99% of the Christians ignore 99% of the rules in the Bible (e.g., you probably don't whip employees for doing something wrong, although it has the endorsement of Jesus himself) then what kind of confusion of mind can get one to think that every single Muslim is applying every single rule from the Quran all the time?
 
But to answer this clearly one more time...

boyntonstu said:
BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?
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Today, brothers and sisters, we open the Good Book to Exodus, chapter 22, verse 20:

"He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."​

In case it wasn't clear, it doesn't mean that some random accident will happen to him. It's part of a list of capital offenses, for which, yes, the death penalty is to be applied.

And in case some still doubt the Lord's words, let us turn to Leviticus, chapter 24, verse 16:

"He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him."​

So, you were saying? That's your religion right there which has such a prescribed death penalty.
 
Oystein said:
The Bible (NT - one of Paul's letters) actually also calls for the veiling of women, and it was customary among many Christian women for ages to at least cover the hair when going to church, and still is in some parts.
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my brother is a traditional catholic, and the women in his church wear what they call a veil, but is actually more like a napkin on their heads.
 
Cainkane1 said:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/45/index.htm
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Duly noted, but as the annotations on the side tell you, that painful doom is what _Allah_ will do to those who got the Quran recited to them but refuse to believe in him. In that aspect it's no different from Jebus promising to fry you in Hell unless you believe in him. In fact, no, the one in the Quran is actually less repulsive: their god only promises to smite you if you had the text delivered to you, while for most Christians who ever lived the dogma was that even the tribesmen from some isolated island who never heard of Christ will go to Hell for just that.

And at least in Sura 45, from what I can see, the only obligation of the faithful towards those who refuse to believe is to give them tidings of that painful doom. I.e., telling someone, "dude, you'll fry in Hell for making fun of Allah" is actually all that it requires.
 
joobie said:
my brother is a traditional catholic, and the women in his church wear what they call a veil, but is actually more like a napkin on their heads.
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As do most all women (and all married women) in my parents' synagogue.
 
How apropos:

Nouakchott, Mauritania (CNN) -- Mahjouba was raped in March on the nighttime streets of Mauritania's capital, but she will not bring charges against the man she says did it since she may be the one who ends up in prison. The 25-year-old says the legal advice she received was to not go to court, leaving her to suffer in silence.

There is no law in Mauritania that defines rape.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/12/21/mauritania.rape/index.html?hpt=C1

Mauritania is 99.99% Muslism.

What a shocker! :eek:
 
Malerin said:
Ten worst countries for women:

Afghanistan (99% Muslim)
DRC (87% Christian)
Iraq (97% Muslim)
Nepal (80% Hindu)
Sudan (70% Muslim)
Guatemala (majority Christian)
Mali (90% Muslim)
Pakistan (97% Muslim)
Saudi Arabia (100% Muslim)
Somalia (100% Muslim)
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/326354
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries

But seriously, Islam is a religion of peace and toleance :rolleyes:
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So, since Guatemala is on that list, can we also conclude that Christianity as a whole is bad?

Also, non-sequitur duly noted. How do you jump from that to "religion of peace" is beyond me, but I guess that's the kind of mental gymnastics needed to support bigotry.

Also, I note the fine art of dishonest quoting out of context. Because the reasons it gives there for being worst for women typically have nothing to do with Islam.

The root causes in half the cases: war. E.g., the women's problem in Iraq isn't anywhere near religious in the original article you plucked that from, it's being impoverished and displaced by the war.

They say chutzpah is that quality which allows someone on trial for murdering his parents to ask for clemency because he's an orphan. And it takes a shameless lot of chutzpah for the country that invaded Iraq and caused the problems described in the article, to then blame them via an association fallacy on the Islam. No, really, it's so bullcrap, it's insulting.

Edit: I also note that you manage not to notice other countries noted there as being crap -- if indeed you actually read the article that list is from, and not just the list as a canned propaganda talking point -- such as Zambia, an officially Christian nation. What did _Christianity_ do for women there? Or, yeah, in Guatemala?
 
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