Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris C]

I am curious as to why the likes of Chris C and others seem to be intent on obscuring the issue.

Here is the input I've apparently added into your conversation. I had to go back quite a few pages to see what in earth you are talking about. I dont believe i ever mentioned 14 hours or whatever your talking about. I just wanted to know what cartwheels have to do with guilt.

"It appears to me that several posters including myself have addressed this."

Not with the same enthusiasm reserved for other topics such as rocks and windows.

"according to supernaut "This particular spin seems to have been kicked off by the "journalist" and guilter idol Nick Pisa,""

Do you really have to call him names? I would have thought that most reasonable people would have come to the same conclusion as myself. That is, that this confirms the multiple assailant theory.

By the way, did anyone do the maths on the cartwheels minus end of witness statement sum?

I thought that this would have been useful, seeing as people are still posting the "14 hours" figure as though it were fact.

What do cartwheels have to do with being guilty. What names where being directed at "guilter Idol Nick Pisa"?

Chris C: "What do cartwheels have to do with being guilty. "

Are you deliberately missing the point?

You never answered. so I ask again "Are you deliberately missing the point?"

Sorry If I went to bed before answering your post. Could you cite when Knox was doing cartwheels and how its involved with the interrogation. Though I do find it odd, that whenever people discuss the interrogation, suddenly guilters start flinging cartwheels around as their defense of their beliefs.

 

[Chris C]

Did I miss any correspondence between us on this?

 

[loverofzion]

I don't believe that it matters whether the interview that night was almost three hours or some other number. Techinically, it's been oft repeated that the actual interrogation that night lasted less than three hours. What is the transcript of the interview? It's all important what was said.

Suddenly what-does-it-matter-how-long-it-was?!

Til now, it was the poor girl had no food, couldn't pee, was sleepless, naive and helpless while undergoing "torture" and "inquisition" (no less!) for all those many lo-o-ong hours..

Do you backtrack and obfuscate every time you are caught in your long term cherished lies?

 

[Withnail1969]

It seems that the defenders of Knox, find it easy to put forward Moore as an expert on the case, yet completely ignore the fact that he either knows little or chooses to distort the facts bltantly. They also appear to have developed a tactic of evading simple questions about the case by going off on tangents or pretending to misunderstand.

As I said earlier, I have not checked out JREF for some time, but it seems that nothing changes.

A quick search of this thread reveals Steve Moore has been mentioned 224 times in a total of 21,502 posts, representing 1.04% of total posts.

I don't think most people here particularly care what Steve Moore's views are.

 

[colonelhall]

Chris C Did you not spot tis

"By the way, did anyone do the maths on the cartwheels minus end of witness statement sum?

I thought that this would have been useful, seeing as people are still posting the "14 hours" figure as though it were fact.

Don't bother to answer We all know what's going on here.

 

[Chris C]

Chris C Did you not spot tis

"By the way, did anyone do the maths on the cartwheels minus end of witness statement sum?

I thought that this would have been useful, seeing as people are still posting the "14 hours" figure as though it were fact.

Don't bother to answer We all know what's going on here.

And once again I ask, what do cartwheels have to do with Guilt? Oh and what names where Guilter Idol Nick Pisa called? Were they worse then what some of the guilters have called Steve Moores wife? Are they stalking Nick Pisa now or his wife?

 

[Withnail1969]

Very funny ChrisC. Obviously a waste of time. AT least I think that we have established here that Steve Moore is of no consequence and that the 14 hour comments are just nonsense and that Chris C is incapable of answering a simple question.

As I had already said, we are wasting our time here.

I'm sure in some alternate reality you've scored some kind of point. I'm also sure Chris C is as baffled as I am as to what that point is.

 

[colonelhall]

Withnail: "I'm sure in some alternate reality you've scored some kind of point. I'm also sure Chris C is as baffled as I am as to what that point is."

Poor dears!

 

[SomeAlibi]

Okay, I am going to explain this to you very clearly. When Michelle wrote "His contacting us is how it started" she was referring to Steve's interviews.

You and your friends have developed a theory that I went out looking for a random FBI agent to mold into a mouthpiece for Injustice in Perugia. This is a ridiculous theory. Steve Moore is far too intelligent to let anyone tell him what he is supposed to think.

You claim that Michelle lied when she stated that Steve originally felt that Amanda and Raffaele were guilty. She said it was her that encouraged him to look more closely at the case. Michelle was telling the truth. This happened long before I ever met Steve and Michelle.

I was notified that a woman was posting comments on facebook that her husband was a retired FBI agent and he believed Amanda and Raffaele were innocent. It was her comments on facebook that led me to contact her. I asked her if her husband would like to get more actively involved.

Steve wrote a series of articles for Injustice in Perugia that eventually led to interviews.

Michelle said that it all happened in a "freakish bizarre way" because I found her from a couple of posts that she made on facebook. After I talked to her, Steve contacted me letting me know that he would like to help.

Your article is a perfect example of how misinformation is spread. You didn't research this at all. You took one blog post out of context and ran with it. You stated publicly that your goal was to "bring down Steve Moore." It's apparent that you aren't going to let the truth get in your way. Your goals in life sound vindictive to me but that's just my opinion. Looking at how you have chosen to twist the actual facts regarding Steve and Michelle, it's no surprise that you feel Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. If the truth isn't important, it's pretty easy to convince yourself of just about anything.

Pull the other one Bruce, it's got sleigh bells on it. The blog was yanked off the internet when the mistake was made public and then put back up several hours later with a different title but the content the same when it became clear the content had already been capped and there was no hiding it. It's flipping obvious to everyone involved. Your first sentence doesn't even make sense. It's positively Amandaesque in obscurity. By the way, did you see Edda's comment that speaking is not Amanda's thing but writing absolutely is. Bit of an error given Amanda was reading her speech eh?

I think you did a smart thing getting an ex FBI employee involved. But you got the wrong one. Many people, and I include several pro-innocence people are uncomfortable with Moore's hyperbole and inability to address the evidence without gross exaggeration. For instance:

Why does Moore claim Amanda was "beaten"? As you know, she claims she was clipped over the head twice by someone she can't identify. Why the need for the gross exaggeration? Utterly ridiculous.

Why does Moore claim the interrogation was next to "waterboarding". A gross exaggeration of an interview versus torture. Ridiculous.

Why did Moore claim the interview was 14 hours when we know that the confession was made in an interview conducted between about 11pm to 2.15 / 2.30 am. Two and a half hours top. Why the need for gross distortion of the facts? If you have right on your side, you don't need to make stuff up.

Why did Moore claim her had reviewed all of the documentary evidence and then go on to withdraw it? Many people would believe it's because he can't help himself over-exaggerating but got caught out.

It is quite incredible that Moore appeared unable to remember Meredith Kercher's name in early interviews. Whose script was he going off?

Why is Moore's career history so obscure? How did he end up being a helicopter pilot? Why does he claim he "took down" a serious criminal when in fact that criminal turned himself in on an unsolicited basis. Gross personal exaggeration tells you something about a man's character.

I can also tell you, with 20+ years of experience I know of not one single law enforcement professional or lawyer in the same circumstances who would not read the judge's report when seeking to assist the overturn of a judgement. It is absolutely incredible that he didn't and in fact was proud to boast of it on television. This is a massive indication of lack of credibility. It doesn't matter if you disagree with Massei, it is critical to understand the case against the defendant if you seek to overturn it. This was the biggest indication of someone who lacks credibility.

I've left Steve be for now. He's doing more harm to Amanda's case than not as evidenced by her own lawyers stating they find him unhelpful. When the defendant's own lawyers say that, you really should fetch a clue. I'm not a vindictive person - he's got a teenage daughter and I don't need to prejudice their lives unless it's in response to misinformation inappropriately spread about the case. For now, he's showing himself up so badly, he's better off, for our side, doing what he's doing.

I dampened and managed out a suggestion that Chris Mellas's work should be informed of his use of work addresses to register personal internet sites and my post is on PMF because I didn't think Amanda's sisters needed any more instability in their lives. We also know a number of things about how Chris and Edda have been occupying their personal time which would be utterly destructive but we don't post them because they are not germane to the case. Our side acts with decorum and credibly argues on the evidence, correcting ourselves when we make mistakes. Steve Moore does not. A public retraction of his worst exaggerations would be a start.

 

[SomeAlibi]

All he had to do was climb up on the planter box, grab the overhanging roof, and swing across a four-foot span to the window ledge.

Charlie, I know you aren't going to believe me but seriously, this is total nonsense if you go there. I hope you get the chance one day but trust me this is utterly bogus. The climb from below is much more credible than this relatively speaking.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Charlie, I know you aren't going to believe me but seriously, this is total nonsense if you go there. I hope you get the chance one day but trust me this is utterly bogus. The climb from below is much more credible than this relatively speaking.

I was there.

 

[RoseMontague]

Here is the quote from Filomena as presented in the Micheli report:

R. argued that there were certainly valuable items, including a laptop, a pair of sunglasses and some gold jewelry, stored in a drawer: a look surface, it seemed that nothing was missing, except perhaps some article makeup.As for the window, remember to have certainly closed the windows, but probably leaving the shutters open: the shutters, but can not be hundred percent sure, without thought of them still closed both since left the tax met resistance on the sill due to a swelling of the wood. His memory was no longer accurate, since it considered to have certainly opened the shutters in the morning needing light to change (while not having stayed home, but with your boyfriend, had moved from there and reached the A. who was celebrating his birthday), but was then removed in a hurry because he was already late.

It is clear that it is the outside shutters she is referring to. I have posted the other versions of her statements regarding the shutters and came to the conclusion that the only thing she is clear on is that she is not clear at all on this issue. Massei quotes the version that helps the case against AK and RS and pretends there has been no contradiction or doubt.

 

[RoseMontague]

Btw, I looked for Micheli's rejection of the defence's claim about the opening of the Naruto file while I was browsing the report, but couldn't find it. Any cite on that yet?

The police computer non-expert did not even find this or list it in the report. This is pointed out in Raffaele's appeal. It is obvious that the police failed miserably in terms of the computer evidence and new tests should be conducted. This missed file along with the new information provided by Raffaele's defense team should not be ignored.

 

[Mary_H]

No, that is incorrect.
Subjects under hypnotic suggestion enter a particular mental state that is limited to that period of time that they are under the suggestion of the hypnotherapist. They are in a hyper suggestible state, but can be snapped out of it by the hypnotherapist at any time.

You just described Amanda's interrogation.

In addition to which no one can be hypnotized AGAINST his will; one must be a willing participant to enter into that state.

The marketing industry begs to differ.

 

[RoseMontague]

How does Bruce Fisher contacting them AFTER she posted they wanted to help on FB make their story untrue? She says right in her comment that Steve Moore is convinced of her innocence and wants to help.

Bruce Fisher being told about her comment and contacting them is how they found a WAY to get actively involved. Her comment makes it clear that Steve Moore had already looked into the case and was convinced of Amanda Knox's innocence before Michelle offered his involvement on the FB page.

The 48hrs mystery story would have occurred before she posted that comment on the FB page.

Did you read what Michelle wrote on MAR 16, 2010. It's not possible for her to have gone back in time to write that comment. It is a DATE STAMPED comment.

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=289513668265&id=193468818894


As far as the blog, I don't blame them for taking it down after PMF started to poke at it.

I agree completely with your post, Draca. SA's claims in this regard are based on out of context and cherry picked comments and in no way reflects the reality of events that actually occurred.

 

[Mary_H]

On the time, I'm agnostic, sometime after 9 I believe. They'd been smoking since the late afternoon (cite: Raffaele's diary) and they were pretty bombed already I believe.

Where did she write that they smoked more than one joint? It's actually at the end of the quote in my original post - that night they smoked a lot. Your point about your dope tolerance (same as mine as it happens from many many years ago) is not relevant to Amanda. She was a regular dope smoker from her diary (see several references to having a "smoke up", her delight that her new flatmates "smoke like chimneys" (I think it's safe to say she didn't mean Gauloises) and Rudy's diary relating the night in the boy's apartment upstairs where he says she had a joint on her lips pretty much all night long).

"...it's a cute house that is right in the middle of this random garden in the middle of perugia. around us are apartment buildings, but we enter through a gate and there it is. im in love. i meet her roommate molly. the house has a kitchen, 2 bathrooms, and four bathrooms. not to mention a washing maschine, and internet access. not to mention, she owns two guitars and wants to play with me. not to mention the view is amazing. not to mention i have a terrace that looks over the perugian city/countryside. not to mention she wants me to teach erh yoga. not to mention they both smoke like chimneys. and, she offers me one of the open rooms after we hang out for a bit. we exchange numbers. i put down a down payment. im feeling sky high. these girls are awesome. really sweet, really down to earth, funny as hell. neither are students, they actually both work int he same law office, and they are desperate for roommates because the two they had decided they wanted to disappear all of a sudden."


People don't smoke pot like chimneys; they smoke cigarettes like chimneys. Amanda is not referring to drugs in this passage; she is referring to cigarettes. She being funny by contrasting the beauty she just described with her new roommates' bad habits.

 

[SomeAlibi]

I agree completely with your post, Draca. SA's claims in this regard are based on out of context and cherry picked comments and in no way reflects the reality of events that actually occurred.

In your opinion. Draca's idea that the blog was taken down once people started to "poke" at it only for it to be put up hours later again once the screenshots showed it had been capped is just pure comedy.

I have a lot more time for the posters on your side who are willing to acknowledge the weaknesses in the defence case, as I acknowledge the weaknesses in the prosecution case. Your wholesale denial of even blindingly obvious points - literally everything on the prosecution side and anything to do with the pro-prosecution side - badly undermines the credibility of your arguments.

I am interested in your comments on the gross exaggerations put about local and national media by Steve Moore which I posted above. Do you not find him slightly embarrassing to have on "your" side? Do you not find Amanda's own lawyers publicly admonishing him not to be a rather clear indication of the fact that he is actively damaging Amanda's chances?

 

[Kestrel]

My information is as follows:

12:00 Knox begins witness interview.

1:45 Accuses Lamumba and signs a statement. Interview ends.

3:30 At Knox's request, she makes a "spontaneous statement" and is now an official suspect.

5:45 Interrogation ends.

Do you have a source for your claim that the interview begin at 12:00 and the event you claim happened at 3:30 AM?

 

[Mary_H]

Rudy's defence team couldn't find a single person who claimed Rudy was friendly with Meredith or had any sort of interaction with her. She left Sophie Lupton at just before 9pm without mentioning any meet up. The girl's dead, you don't have to besmirch her honour by making up stuff that has no foundation in evidence or testimony whatsoever and which has been thoroughly rejected by three levels of judicial proceedings in Italy. Have some dignity will you?

"....[Meredith was] a girl of twenty years as all the others. And like all the others, according to the lawyer Nicodemo Gentile, [Meredith] felt attraction not only for the Italian boyfriend. Hence the conviction, the lawyers, on the evening of November 1 Rudy and Meredith had gathered to spend some "together away from prying eyes."

http://translate.google.com/transla...de_0a1842a4-a28e-11dd-9d1b-00144f02aabc.shtml

 

[Chris C]

I'm sure in some alternate reality you've scored some kind of point. I'm also sure Chris C is as baffled as I am as to what that point is.

I agree. He wants me to defend my claims of a 14 hour interrogation. Yet I'm still waiting on him to cite where I made that claim. How can I take a stance or defend my comments? When I've not made the comments or taken a stance on what he claims I have. I even posted my 2 comments towards him and he still insists that I was talking about a 14 hour interrogation. Yet the only person I've seen for a ton of pages talking about a 14 hour interrogation is him.

I do have a few people on ignore. Maybe he is having a 14 hour interrogation conversation with them.