$10K fine for not going through TSA screening?

[WildCat]

I dread what will happen in our society when the terrorists' tactics for mass murder extend beyond hijacking airplanes- can we look forward to being treated like criminal suspects not only when we want to board an airplane, but also if we want to take a train, enter a mall, go to a sporting event...?

I don't see why not, under the current reasoning that you don't have to utilize those things if you don't want to.

I think it's bogus reasoning, because I don't think the new searches are reasonable in light of the actual threat.

 

[Aepervius]

That's seriously messed up. I would not want to have to explain to a child that it's wrong for an adult to touch their private areas except for a doctor or a uniformed government employee.

I dread what will happen in our society when the terrorists' tactics for mass murder extend beyond hijacking airplanes- can we look forward to being treated like criminal suspects not only when we want to board an airplane, but also if we want to take a train, enter a mall, go to a sporting event...?

As far as I can tell you can probably add "enter a federal building". I am sure you feel very TOUCHED to be so safe.


Ah. Hm. I'll get my coat.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I ok with security theater as long as it's not too annoying. The backscatter machines/grope thing are too annoying. If you want to be that annoying you're going to have to actually prove to me that your security is good enough for the trouble you are putting me through.

 

[fuelair]

I can't sympathise. From reading his blog it sounds like this is exactly what he was aiming for right from the start.

This needs to happen more and more - and people who do not HAVE to fly need to stop doing so and tell the arlines why. They have gone way overboard and wasted billions on all this silliness plus making a group of poorly trained incompetants (for this work) into little (and I'll take the Godwin hit with pleasure) nazis.
I have not flown since before 9-11 - no fear of flying (love it) but I am not going to tolerate the stupidity involved in taking a flight in the US.

 

[fuelair]

I ok with security theater as long as it's not too annoying. The backscatter machines/grope thing are too annoying. If you want to be that annoying you're going to have to actually prove to me that your security is good enough for the trouble you are putting me through.

And I guarantee they can't prove it because they can't do it - and the costs of it in so many ways have hurt our economy far more than any combination of terrorist acts in the last 30 years (against the US).

 

[corbin]

Shouldn't TSA compliance be the choice of the airlines, which after all are privately owned and not government entities?

He brings up a good point in the video: Why is a potentially harmful x-ray or intrusive groping now a condition of travel?

 

[Grizzly Adams]

And now it seems the TSA has apparently graduated from farcical to ridiculously absurd. Granted, I first saw this on InfoWars and we all know how retarded Alex Jones is, but this appears to be one of those rare occasions where that broken clock is actually right.

TSA puts their hands down man's pants

And the latest episode (#274 for future readers) of This Week in Tech has a recount of a similar experience by one of the hosts (in the low-quality download, the discussion of airport security measures begins at around 22:15 and the relevant story begins at around 24:00). I don't know much about TWiT's accuracy, but I do frequently listen to their affiliated legal show, This Week in Law, which I find to be pretty reasonable and not-nutty. I have no reason to believe TWiT is run differently than TWiL.

When is it too far? I'd say it's been too far for a while, and these two examples are beyond any sense of reasonability.

 

[WildCat]

TSA puts their hands down man's pants

From there:

Mollman plans to file a complaint, but the TSA released a statement saying that pat-downs make good security sense.

The TSA also reminds travelers that they have the right to have a traveling companion present when they're searched.

Well, that makes it ok then! So long as I'm not molested in private...

 

[Region Rat]

I'm afraid I must admit that I'm just too stupid to understand this nonsense.

The TSA testifies that it must do these body scans or invasive pat downs to give passengers the most secure flying experience possible.

What I don't understand is how doing this to a small percentage of randomly selected passengers will do it.

I know the TSA is thinking "fear factor- terrorists won't want to take a chance". I'm not so sure I buy that. From a terrorist groups perspective, if they have people willing to blow themselves up on a plane, why wouldn't they take a chance and if caught in security, just blow themselves up there. Unless the TSA starts feeling everyone up, they could just try again later. Odds are good for success.

 

[fuelair]

Too logical for them - they have a need to be prooveractive. (prohyperactive? Too much sugar in their doughnuts?)

 

[WildCat]

What I don't understand is how doing this to a small percentage of randomly selected passengers will do it.

The only reason everyone isn't getting the backscatter/pat down is because there aren't enough machines available now to screen everyone this way.

That equation is rapidly changing, as hundreds more machines are coming online. Soon everyone will have to either be photographed naked or get groped.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I really have to wonder at other people's definitions of "naked" and "grope" if they think those grainy horrible backscatter images reveal nudity, and a patdown frisk counts as groping. I can only assume that not everybody's experienced nudity and groping, and pity them.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Just wanted to add another tale to the thread. This guy seems to have taken a more practical approach than the "don't touch my junk" guy.

http://jalopnik.com/5692480/a-tsa-success-story

(The comments section is uncensored for language.)

I wonder if the letter from the UCSF doctors will prod the TSA into further research on the health impacts of these things.

 

[WildCat]

I really have to wonder at other people's definitions of "naked" and "grope" if they think those grainy horrible backscatter images reveal nudity, and a patdown frisk counts as groping. I can only assume that not everybody's experienced nudity and groping, and pity them.

The new machines are not grainy at all. Maybe not even within the rules to show here...

NSFW - backscatter

 

[Soapy Sam]

Aye, that's me, right enough. Apart from the tits and the Utility belt.


I think I may do some creative handwork with some aluminium foil before my next flight.
Think "XXXX OFF!" in large, friendly letters...

 

[bookitty]

I really have to wonder at other people's definitions of "naked" and "grope" if they think those grainy horrible backscatter images reveal nudity, and a patdown frisk counts as groping. I can only assume that not everybody's experienced nudity and groping, and pity them.

It's weird. I'm not comfortable with a stranger touching my girlie-bits even for a brief second, but if that what it takes to get to my next holiday, I'll probably grumble and deal with it.

But knowing that my 14 year old niece is flying for the Christmas holiday freaks me out. Not because I think the TSA employee is getting anything out of it but because I remember being 14 and having a stranger touch you is just awful.

So is that awfulness worth the potential benefits? Not really. Anyone on this board could come up with an imaginative way to get plastic explosives past TSA and onto a plane. The only thing that could detect them are dogs, puffers or chemical wands. The TSA doesn't seem to be implementing more of those, they are now relying on nekkid machines and the fumbling hands of under-trained staff.

Besides, if America is going to give up on prudishness, there are far better applications.

 

[WildCat]

Aye, that's me, right enough. Apart from the tits and the Utility belt.


I think I may do some creative handwork with some aluminium foil before my next flight.
Think "XXXX OFF!" in large, friendly letters...

I think there would be far more opposition (and opposition is growing rapidly now) if people knew what the scanned images actually look like. And I'm pretty certain the one I posted was altered to hide details in the genital area.

 

[WildCat]

In related news:

Taxpayers must cover most of a $55.3 million settlement approved Tuesday by Cook County to compensate as many as 250,000 people who were strip searched at the county jail, often in mass lineups and even if they were detained for charges as minor as traffic violations.

Some of the degrading practices — including strip searches of dozens of men at a time — continued until 2009, years after the county paid out $6.8 million for a similar case filed by women, lawyers for the plaintiffs said.

...The county did not admit wrongdoing and now does nearly all searches of incoming inmates with electronic scanning devices like those currently used in many airports.

Yep, to get on a plane now you get the exact same search as when you're booked into Cook County Jail.

 

[Soapy Sam]

The pat-down (moderately intimate) at Domodedovo transit arrivals is done by (usually) two female employees. One of the ones I've been groped by is welcome to repeat the experience in a hotel of her choosing any old time.

(I'm getting old and thrills are hard to come by).

Seriously.
Maybe we're a wee bit tight in the old moral joints here. It's a total stranger. It's a groin. You'll survive it. Can't be that damn much fun for them . either.

 

[WildCat]

Maybe we're a wee bit tight in the old moral joints here. It's a total stranger. It's a groin. You'll survive it. Can't be that damn much fun for them . either.

Suit yourself, I'll be driving. I have no need to go through that for the illusion of security.