Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[platonov]

Tastes vary indeed.

Ms. Dempsey writes only in English, AFAIK. However, she reads and speaks Italian. In my estimation, the proof of the pudding is in the eating with respect to any of the reporters/bloggers on this case.

Indeed but tastes vary as we have already established upthread.

But leaving aside varying journalistic standards is it not the case that both C Dempsey & Frank S are merely opportunistic hacks* who built blogs, and in Dempsey's case, sold a book on the back of a sordid murder.

* this is probably too kind - were either working journo's at the time ?

Which makes it all the more surprising the esteem in which their partisan opinions are held by the 'innocentsi' - To the extent that when I, on my entry into this thread, asked a straightforward Q regarding AK's testimony I was fobbed off with their opinions as opposed to the actual testimony. ??

Tastes vary indeed.

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[Withnail1969]

And those are the only circumstances in which a judge can order detention?


Given the rather poor reputation of the USA with regard to the extradiction of its own citizens and add to that that travel within the European Union does not require a passport and that there are other US embassies within the EU where Amanda could have applied for a new passport; and I think it should be abundantly clear that detention in prison was the only reasonable option.

A ludicrous conclusion. House arrest under the supervision of the respective families was the only reasonable option.

 

[Amazer]

A ludicrous conclusion. House arrest under the supervision of the respective families was the only reasonable option.

Amanda has family in Italy?

 

[Withnail1969]

Amanda has family in Italy?

Her mother was in italy within a very short time and the Knox family offered to get a flat in Perugia and keep Amanda under supervision.

Amanda also has family in Germany and Austria who would presumably assist if needed.

 

[quadraginta]

Hold on, is that a giant reptile in your avatar.

This 'thing' might be bigger than even some here suspect.

Have I just 'juiced the piglet' ?

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Gargoyle. We are not reptiles. (Not exactly.)

In that photo I had been captured on the western battlements of my demesnes savoring a moment of quiet reflection on the quality of ebbing afternoon light over the mountains on a crisp December day.

It's the sort of thing gargoyles do. Our contemplative and artistic nature goes largely unappreciated.

 

[Mary_H]

Indeed but tastes vary as we have already established upthread.

But leaving aside varying journalistic standards is it not the case that both C Dempsey & Frank S are merely opportunistic hacks* who built blogs, and in Dempsey's case, sold a book on the back of a sordid murder.

* this is probably too kind - were either working journo's at the time ?

Which makes it all the more surprising the esteem in which their partisan opinions are held by the 'innocentsi' - To the extent that when I, on my entry into this thread, asked a straightforward Q regarding AK's testimony I was fobbed off with their opinions as opposed to the actual testimony. ??

Tastes vary indeed.

.

Maybe we should find out if they are MD's, too.

 

[Withnail1969]

Maybe we should find out if they are MD's, too.

In order to comment on this case you need to have the following qualifications:-

Doctor of Medicine, Forensic Pathology, Psychology, Psychiatry, Criminal Law, International Law, Italian Law, Locksmithing, Computer Science, Computer Forensics, Rock Throwing, Climbing, Basketball, Chemistry, Physics and Crime Scene Cleanup

If you do not have this skillset, please do not comment, thanks.

 

[Amazer]

Her mother was in italy within a very short time and the Knox family offered to get a flat in Perugia and keep Amanda under supervision.

Amanda also has family in Germany and Austria who would presumably assist if needed.

So, no family in Italy.

 

[pilot padron]

K L:
Earlier today, I enjoyed being able to agree with one of your arguments posted here.

However, when I returned later, I note that your colleagues, and confederates here do not seem to accord your arguments, advice or "what you say" any more esteem than the opposition routinely does.

Great post. Let's call Italy's 'justice' system by its name - fascism.

Let's not - it's got a lot wrong with it, as this case demonstrates, but the adversarial system we use has an awful lot wrong with it too, and has produced its own share of railroaded dud convictions.

I say we skip the Italy-bashing.

There's also strong evidence from a Perugia local that Curatolo was coached to give false testimony. He messed it up though, by embellishing it with too many (wrong) details - but the judge just ignored them.

I can only assume Italy's justice system is clogged up with all the paperwork involved in releasing Mafia killers within 3 years, not to mention the exponential proliferation of 'calunnia' trials. That might explain the prima facie violations of Article 5 in this case.

If only Amanda had been a Mafia killer with a few murders to her name. Her human rights would have been respected and she would by now be a free woman.

They should have been released on house arrest under the supervision of their families, but of course Mignini et al told the ludicrous lie that they were likely to run rampant through Perugia on a killing spree.

I've seen these Italian police before, strutting around Rome with their boots and their guns. I'm sure an all-night discussion with 12 such gentlemen was a delightful experience for all concerned.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

house arrest

So, no family in Italy.

Amazer,

What about house arrest for Raffaele?

 

[RoseMontague]

I think there are two issues here:

1. What is Italian case law and the European Convention say about house arrest as an option for a non-EU citizen who has no home or family in the country in question?

2. According to the paper in question, according to the European Court a person can be held if there is the belief they will flee. From that paper:

Based on that, I think there was justification that Amanda might flee. She was facing a serious sentence, she had no family, work or financial ties to Italy and it wouldn't be that difficult to escape.​

In regard to Amanda possibly being a flight risk that paper also says:​

Did the court deem her a flight risk? What is the legal procedure for "taking away" a person's passport? The last part was the most strange. There is already an extradition treaty between the United States and Italy. Why would an additional assurance be needed? On what legal grounds?​

​

Interesting choice of fonts. Knowing what we know now it is hard to say if she should have fled if she had been released on house arrest.

ETA font change

 

[Withnail1969]

So, no family in Italy.

Well they were in italy because they arrived there.

 

[platonov]

Originally Posted by platonov

<snip>

Which makes it all the more surprising the esteem in which their partisan opinions are held by the 'innocentsi' - To the extent that when I, on my entry into this thread, asked a straightforward Q regarding AK's testimony I was fobbed off with their opinions as opposed to the actual testimony. ??

Maybe we should find out if they are MD's, too.

You appear to have misinterpreted the point of my post.

I prefer to taste the pudding myself - rather than depend on the opinions of a food blogger.

ETA who may be selling a particularly rancid dish of her own.

.

 

[platonov]

Gargoyle. We are not reptiles. (Not exactly.)

In that photo I had been captured on the western battlements of my demesnes savoring a moment of quiet reflection on the quality of ebbing afternoon light over the mountains on a crisp December day.

It's the sort of thing gargoyles do. Our contemplative and artistic nature goes largely unappreciated.

I'm not convinced - that kind of thing is often just a cover for laziness.

In any case gargoyle is just a euphemism for lizard usually employed when explaining the conspiracy to listeners who are similarly 'stoned'.

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[Kaosium]

You appear to have misinterpreted the point of my post.

I prefer to taste the pudding myself - rather than depend on the opinions of a food blogger.

ETA who may be selling a particularly rancid dish of her own.

.

The truth is strong medicine sometimes.

What do you prefer to read on the case? The only published standard bearer left for the cause of guilt seems to be such worthies as the UK's Sun and Daily Mail, and even Bob Graham of the latter tabloid did a mea culpa. Although they recently did present some pseudo-psychologists' opinion on her Lady McBeth picture. For some reason the Sun pulled it within hours, I guess it clashed with their Page 3 girls.

Or can you find a conspiracy there too?

 

[platonov]

The truth is strong medicine sometimes.

What do you prefer to read on the case? The only published standard bearer left for the cause of guilt seems to be such worthies as the UK's Sun and Daily Mail, and even Bob Graham of the latter tabloid did a mea culpa. Although they recently did present some pseudo-psychologists' opinion on her Lady McBeth picture. For some reason the Sun pulled it within hours, I guess it clashed with their Page 3 girls.

Or can you find a conspiracy there too?

The truth from behind the curtain eh

[I regard those publications much as I regards Dempsey - & aimed at a similar if larger audience]

You appear to have misinterpreted my post - perhaps the lack of clarity was down to my prose. Here it is bolded ...

Which makes it all the more surprising the esteem in which their partisan opinions are held by the 'innocentsi' - To the extent that when I, on my entry into this thread, asked a straightforward Q regarding AK's testimony I was fobbed off with their opinions as opposed to the actual testimony. ??

But we don't want to go round in circles so I'm happy to move on, again.

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[Mary_H]

You appear to have misinterpreted the point of my post.

.

That is highly likely. I'm still trying to figure out what juicing the piglet means.

 

[quadraginta]

I'm not convinced - that kind of thing is often just a cover for laziness.

In any case gargoyle is just a euphemism for lizard usually employed when explaining the conspiracy to listeners who are similarly 'stoned'.

.

You wound me to the quick. Such rare moments of solitude and wonder are not to be squandered, no matter how pressing other affairs may be. Your namesake would be disappointed.

Not to mention that should the ebbing light be left to depart unsavored and unappreciated it might not choose to return. Imagine the catastrophe which would ensue in such a circumstance.

Such ill-mannered anti-gargoyleism does not speak well to your character. I hope it is a momentary aberration, or perhaps a temporary over-indulgence in mood altering substances.

Which brings me to another correction. The finest granite is not mere "stone".

 

[Withnail1969]

That is highly likely. I'm still trying to figure out what juicing the piglet means.

'Juicing' is slang for injecting or otherwise abusing steroids (source - 'Fight Club').

Could this mean creating a giant and extremely strong adult pig with repeated doses and heavy workouts?

 

[Amazer]

Amazer,

What about house arrest for Raffaele?

Well, i'd personally rate murder as a serious offence. As such I don't think that murder suspects should have the option of house arrest.

Well they were in italy because they arrived there.

Sure, and what guarantee that they would actually stay in Italy?