Homosexuality is a choice

[Shrike]

Snake- why is it soooo very important for you to believe that homosexuality is a choice?

how does this effect your life...one way or the other?

I was almost planning of creating a new thread with these questions for ST. And: If homosexuality IS a choice, then what?
Maybe you or I should create a new thread.

 

[Thunder]

I was almost planning of creating a new thread with these questions for ST. And: If homosexuality IS a choice, then what?
Maybe you or I should create a new thread.

not a bad idea, as this subject seems to be very important to him.

 

[bikerdruid]

No, you had not. Your Microsoft Paint picture left important details outside.

It is not just the lack of other sexual orientations in the colours, but also the lack of a variable which represent time period.

please explain how time period has anything to do with gender, sexual preference or sexuality.

 

[bikerdruid]

Get it straight, Thunder.

Would you provide me the statement of such scientists and references to the respective essays?

you refusal to answer any direct questions, to discuss honestly and to deal with the issues shows that this thread is , for you, merely mental masturbation.

 

[Thunder]

SnakeTongue- just out of curiosity, are you gay?

were you ever gay?

its just a question, not meant to offend.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Okay, SnakeTongue, so lets start on the base that you are right and homosexuality is a choice. That means anyone can choose to be a homosexual by their own free will. Fine.

Scenario: I've kidnapped you and I'm pointing a gun at you. I say "Become a homosexual now or I shoot you in the head"

What do you do?

Do you concede my demand and become a homosexual or do you have me shoot you?

(Please notice this is not the same as forcing you to have homosexual sex, which does not require you to actually like it. You can have sex forced and in fact, that's what rape is all about. What I'm asking you is if you can decide to feel attracted to a gender you didn't originally feel attracted to, out of pure willful choice on your part)

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

Homosexual behavior is found throughout the animal kingdom, so this notion it's found 'nowhere in nature' are the rantings of dumb as crazy religious crackpots

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

I know someone who denounced homosexuality & 'sodomy' as being unnatural- yet he admitted he likes to do anal and be fellatiated when with his girlfriend...Is there a contradication ion there somewhere?

 

[Alan]

Yes, indeed, gender is not sexual orientation. It is just gender: male or female.

It is no such thing of "gender identity". The word "gender" itself represent an identity.



It is a sexual conduct influenced by the sexual orientation of the individual performing in such conduct.

Therefore masturbation is not a sexual orientation itself. Neither are other sexual acts (including sex with men and/or women). The sexual orientation is the desire that sexual conduct is influenced by.

I stand by the phrase "gender identity" but I think it would be easier for you to understand the ideas in this thread if we stay concentrated on the matter only of sexual orientation.

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

I know someone who denounced homosexuality & 'sodomy' as being unnatural- yet he admitted he likes to do anal and be fellatiated when with his girlfriend...Is there a contradication ion there somewhere?

What is your point?

 

[Alan]

please explain how time period has anything to do with gender, sexual preference or sexuality.

I'll take a shot.

Sexuality and gender can be fluid.

If somebody over a lifetime exclusively likes members of a single sex, that fluidity might be seen in the practices they want to take part in, and the properties of the people the person is attracted to OTHER than their sex or gender (such as body shape, race, accent, clothes...).

If somebody is not exclusively attracted to members of a single sex, that fluidity has just one more factor to vary on.

As for gender and gender identity, there are people who experience change over time with those as well. Some people who are genderfluid, for example. http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2009/03/word-of-gay-genderfluid.html

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

What is your point?

The point is that right wing gaybashers are unabashed hippocrites.
They denounce gays in part because they insist that sex can only be for reproduction and not for pleasure- and insist since penis/vagina sex can't happen in gay sex, it's somehow perverted. They've used 'anti sodomy laws' in years past to incarcerate gay people. Yet some gay bashing straight people engage in certain sexual acts (oral, anal) , yet condemn gay people who do the same thing with their partners, and further call such acts unnatural.
So in the gay bashers mind, it's okay for a woman to perform oral on a man, yet wrong for a gay man to do the same on his male partner. Gaybashers denounce oral sex as unnatural, yet often have no problem recieving it.

 

[SnakeTongue]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,978923,00.html

http://www.redding.com/news/2008/jun/17/are-we-born-gay-science-suggests-yes/

read

News media do not represent science at all! I also required you a link to verify the results which proves an irrefutable link between genetic traits and "homosexual" behavior. You did not provided such reference, which shows your strong tendency to confuse objective science with subjective politics.

From your links:

Born Gay?
By WILLIAM A. HENRY III;Ellen Germain/Washington and Alice Park/New York Monday, Jul. 26, 1993

Are we born gay? Science suggests yes
Tom Bestor, June 17, 2008 at midnight

The first article was already scrutinized.

The second article, begins with the word "suggests", which contradict the objectivity of the whole article.

Science do not suggests, science affirms.

Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits, only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. "Unfortunately," says Yale's [Dr. Joel] Gelernter, "it's hard to come up with many" findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated. "...All were announced with great fanfare; all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."

Mann, C. Genes and behavior. Science 264:1687 (1994).

How I contest your statement and both articles with verifiable evidence:

Born or Bred?
Science Does Not Support the Claim That Homosexuality Is Genetic
Robert Knight

The X Chromosome

Another fact that casts doubt on Hamer's conclusions is that other researchers tried to replicate his study but failed. In 1999, Drs. George Rice, Neil Risch and George Ebers published their findings in Science after attempting to replicate Hamer's Xq28 study. Their conclusion: "We were not able to confirm evidence for an Xq28-linked locus underlying male homosexuality." Moreover, they added that when another group of researchers (Sanders, et al.) tried to replicate Hamer's study, they too failed to find a genetic connection to homosexuality.

The Twins Study

In 1991, J. Michael Bailey and Richard C. Pillard published a study that examined identical and fraternal twin brothers and adopted brothers in an effort to establish a genetic link to homosexuality. Fifty-two percent of the identical twins were reportedly homosexual, while only 22 percent of fraternal twins fell into the same category. But since identical twins have identical genetic material, the fact that nearly half of the identical twins were heterosexual effectively refutes the idea that homosexuality has a genetic basis.

Bailey conducted another study in 1999, published in the March 2000 issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, which actually showed less possible genetic influence on homosexuality than the first twins study. He sent a questionnaire to the entire Australian Twin Registry. Only three pairs of identical male twins were both homosexual out of a total of 27 in which at least one was homosexual. Of the 16 fraternal male twins, none of the pairs was both homosexual. Bailey found similar results for lesbians.

http://lifeissues.net/writers/kni/kni_01homosexuality1.html

If a research cannot be replicate in laboratory to obtain the same results of a previous research, the research do not represent any evidence at all.

I dare you to read the whole article above and verify all the references noted in the article.

Snake- why is it soooo very important for you to believe that homosexuality is a choice?

how does this effect your life...one way or the other?

It is not a matter of belief. It is a matter of objectivity.

not a bad idea, as this subject seems to be very important to him.

It is a bad idea and the subject is important to all us.

SnakeTongue- just out of curiosity, are you gay?

were you ever gay?

its just a question, not meant to offend.

If am "bright and lively"?

Not at all the time.

Yes, I was "bright and lively" many times in different contexts.

It is not offensive to ask someone's qualities.

Definition of GAY
1
a : happily excited : merry <in a gay mood> b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
2
a : bright, lively <gay sunny meadows> b : brilliant in color
3
: given to social pleasures; also : licentious
4
a : homosexual <gay men> b : of, relating to, or used by homosexuals <the gay rights movement> <a gay bar>
— gay adverb
— gay·ness noun

 

[JFrankA]

If am "bright and lively"?

Not at all the time.

Yes, I was "bright and lively" many times in different contexts.

It is not offensive to ask someone's qualities.

Why are you afraid of a simple, straightforward question? Why the song and dance?

 

[JFrankA]

Masturbation is the sexual "way of acting".

Indeed, it is not the sexual orientation.

But a question remain: action on what?

Definition of Masturbation:



It is the "way of acting" with "sexual arousal defined by manual stimulation of the genitals."

That was an attempt at a spin on a point you were trying to make that I didn't understand that spin made no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, I don't meant to be disrespectful, but I have no clue what you are getting at. Masturbation is a way to get a sexual release when there is no partner.

To quote your own article:

But between these relationships we (men) will find ourselves returning to single status. During these single periods, we'll most probably continue to have normal sex drives – and the most obvious form of sexual relief and satisfaction available to us at those times will be masturbation.

Further down the article:

Masturbation comes pretty naturally to most men. Let's face it: a male child discovers that his penis feels good before he can talk!

So, it's not surprising that boys fondle this area of their bodies a lot, and then, at the age of around 14, discover that masturbation can lead to orgasm and ejaculation – all of which they find exciting and pleasurable.

It's simply a way of self-satisfaction when there is no one else around. Also, men and women have masturbated before they've decided what their sexual preferences are, even before they know that it's a sexual thing to do.

I'm sorry, I don't get your point when you say

It is a sexual conduct influenced by the sexual orientation of the individual performing in such conduct.

I presume if it is a "sexual arousal", the sexual orientation of the person would shape the thoughts to an arousal take place. Consider your own quote:

If a adult male is paid to masturbate in front of another adult male, how would you identify the sexual orientation of the adult male performing the act?[/quote]

That would be up to him, not me. I don't know what's running through his mind as he performs.

Would this affect the adult male performing?

Again, that would be up to him, not me.

Would this affect the adult male observing the performance?

Once again, that would be up him, not me.

If sexual conduct is not related to sexual orientation at all, why such questions arise?

Sounds like people are trying to read the mind of another person and making decisions for that person in an attempt to label that person, instead of letting that person decide for her/himself!

 

[SnakeTongue]

It's simply a way of self-satisfaction when there is no one else around. Also, men and women have masturbated before they've decided what their sexual preferences are, even before they know that it's a sexual thing to do.

I am glad you had agreed that males and females indeed decide their sexual preference.

I'm sorry, I don't get your point when you say:

I presume if it is a "sexual arousal", the sexual orientation of the person would shape the thoughts to an arousal take place.

What I am saying is: if a male or female have a sexual preference for object X, the male or female will focus his or her thoughts on object X to help him or her reach an orgasm while masturbating

That would be up to him, not me. I don't know what's running through his mind as he performs.

Again, that would be up to him, not me.
Once again, that would be up him, not me.

Of course, that would be up to his choices, not yours.

Sounds like people are trying to read the mind of another person and making decisions for that person in an attempt to label that person, instead of letting that person decide for her/himself!

Yes, "making decisions" is a power of choice.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Why are you afraid of a simple, straightforward question? Why the song and dance?

Afraid? No, I am not.

Straightforward? No, it is a very subjective question which do not address anything objective at all.

Song and dance? Cannot you hear the Hermes god playing his lyre in the Olympus?

 

[SnakeTongue]

Fail. A refusal to honestly answer this question means that you aren't able to accept the consequences of the true answer, which is that you never made a concious decision to be a heterosexual.

you refusal to answer any direct questions, to discuss honestly and to deal with the issues shows that this thread is , for you, merely mental masturbation.

Your insistence to ask such subjective question and do not address objectively the issues of this thread, is for you merely "mental voyeurism".

Do you like to observe "mental masturbation"?

 

[Marcus]

Afraid? No, I am not.

Since you won't answer the question, it seems appropriate to speculate on the reasons.

It's like the elephant in the room, really, If you admit that you didn't choose your own sexual preference, your claim that gays choose theirs will look rather silly.

As the name of the thread is "homosexuality is a choice" it just doesn't get any more on topic than this.

 

[JFrankA]

I am glad you had agreed that males and females indeed decide their sexual preference.

I'll admit to that being a poor choice of words, on my part.

"Decide" was a poor choice of words, I admit. Maybe "realized" is better.

"Gotcha moments" on semantics will get you nowhere.

What I am saying is: if a male or female have a sexual preference for object X, the male or female will focus his or her thoughts on object X to help him or her reach an orgasm while masturbating.

Couldn't you have just said that without all the open wording?

Of course, that would be up to his choices, not yours.

Yes, "making decisions" is a power of choice.

Yes, it's his choice as to what to think. However, his DESIRES do not change.

If a heterosexual man achieves orgasm by masturbation with another man, did that man make a conscious decision to change his basic desires? Or was he thinking about his basic desires to begin with? Or, as I feel it is, the basic desires do not change but what is going on both physically and psychologically is much more complex than labeling the man "He's gay now and made the conscious decision to be so"?

This isn't a decision to become homosexual, it's a decision to perform the act, but the basic desires do not change.