Public Education is a Socialist Monopoly

[Startz]

Mark R:

That's interesting. Your more uptodate data not only shows a majority of high school teachers with a college major in their teaching area, it shows a strong majority.

 

[Hindmost]

Took a bit to find this link...I had posted it in the past. It is comprehensive on education in the US.

http://www.edschools.org/pdf/Educating_Teachers_Report.pdf

As far as teacher qualifications...see page 55

glenn

 

[ThermionicScott]

Man, I come back from a 12-day vacation, and still no brilliant non-socialist solution to the education problem? (For all the kids, mind you.)

Also, not a "Lefty", just disappointed.

- Scott

 

[JonathanQuick]

You have to vet these type of things.. people that become teachers don't necessarily do so from an education program. They change majors and become teachers or they get a specific degree and decide to become a teacher. This is doesn't show up in your cherry picked article. Turns out, teachers tend to be above average.

glenn

I'm quoting a distinguished professor of economics, who writes syndicated articles regularly. His name is Walter Williams, of George Mason University.

"Above average" says nothing. Professor Williams explicitly states that on average, teachers graduated in the bottom third of their college classes.

Now the average college graduate MAY BE "above average," but that does not begin to contradict Williams.

Williams also states that education majors score lower on the SAT than any other major. The second lowest is sociology.

Our parameter is not EVERYONE, it is college graduates.

 

[JonathanQuick]

Man, I come back from a 12-day vacation, and still no brilliant non-socialist solution to the education problem? (For all the kids, mind you.)

Also, not a "Lefty", just disappointed.

- Scott

Scott, I had an atheist, far left-wing friend who was a physics professor. I once asked him what was the most important thing that should be done to improve education. His answer: "eliminate tenure".


Eliminating tenure wouldn't sit well with unions, would it.

And speaking of unions, everyone should know the reason they were first organized. It was racism. Unions were originally formed to keep blacks out of jobs.

Now they're used to keep incompetents IN jobs, and to make things as expensive and difficult as possible. Hence we get the bankruptcy of General Motors, once an enormous and powerful corporation.

 

[Paradox74]

Scott, I had an atheist, far left-wing friend who was a physics professor. I once asked him what was the most important thing that should be done to improve education. His answer: "eliminate tenure".
Eliminating tenure wouldn't sit well with unions, would it.

And speaking of unions, everyone should know the reason they were first organized. It was racism. Unions were originally formed to keep blacks out of jobs.

Now they're used to keep incompetents IN jobs, and to make things as expensive and difficult as possible. Hence we get the bankruptcy of General Motors, once an enormous and powerful corporation.

So now you're implying that not all left-wing atheists are bad. Can you now acknowledge that not all atheists are pinkos? If not, then explain to me who Ayn Rand, Michael Shermer and Penn Teller are.

Also, can you show me an example from history, American history mind you, where unions were first organized to promote racism and keep blacks out of school? (I'm pretty sure that if American teacher unions were not "in power" by the 1930s, the jackboots of Hitler's Third Reich beat us to it, which is why I specified American history)

I asked if you are a YEC.

Do you need that question explained to you?

Not to go off topic here, but what does that have to do with the issue of school vouchers? I can believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old and still favor government school vouchers or, I can accept all of that geological and biological evidence and argue against government school vouchers.

 

[Travis]

Scott, I had an atheist, far left-wing friend who was a physics professor. I once asked him what was the most important thing that should be done to improve education. His answer: "eliminate tenure".


Eliminating tenure wouldn't sit well with unions, would it.

It wouldn't sit well with anyone that wants to see experience rewarded with security. I take it your "atheist, far left-wing friend" was angling for a job he probably wasn't qualified for.

And speaking of unions, everyone should know the reason they were first organized. It was racism. Unions were originally formed to keep blacks out of jobs.

Even if true, relevance?

Now they're used to keep incompetents IN jobs, and to make things as expensive and difficult as possible. Hence we get the bankruptcy of General Motors, once an enormous and powerful corporation.

Only very rarely does a union keep incompetents in jobs they aren't qualified for. Most of the time they are keeping competent people from being abused by management.

 

[ThermionicScott]

Scott, I had an atheist, far left-wing friend who was a physics professor. I once asked him what was the most important thing that should be done to improve education. His answer: "eliminate tenure".

Eliminating tenure (heck, I'll throw in unions too) would be something -- that something still wouldn't fund the education of 64 million schoolchildren without involving government money.

I'm not interested in "interim solutions" or gripes about unions. Surely there's a comprehensive plan to give our kids the best education in the world, using 100% private money. (I'll accept links.)

I mean, if there isn't, you can just say so and we'll respect your honesty.

- Scott

 

[Travis]

I'm sure he has loads of "gay" and "black" "friends" as well.

 

[Ducky]

I still haven't been delivered my Veyron yet.

 

[JonathanQuick]

So now you're implying that not all left-wing atheists are bad.

Paradox, you begin, as so very many people do, with an ASSUMPTION. Where did I EVER say "all left-wing atheists are bad"? Please provide that link. You cannot, because I never said that. Those were YOUR words, and YOU tried to put them in MY mouth. That is contemptibly misleading of you, sir. It tends to validate my claim that Leftists are terribly dishonest, for IF you are not a Leftist, you defend them.

Can you now acknowledge that not all atheists are pinkos? If not, then explain to me who Ayn Rand, Michael Shermer and Penn Teller are.

There you go again. - Ronald Reagan to Jimmy Carter

WHERE did I say "all atheists are pinkos"? Again, those are YOUR words, not mine.
Atheists TEND to be Leftists. In fact, my friend, the physics professor, is a flaming pinko. But he sure likes to make money and spend it. I'm not aware of his ever having given a dime to any charity, however.

Who "are" Ayn Rand, Michael Shermer, and Penn Teller (SIC)?

Ayn Rand is dead. She was a libertarian. This is in stark contrast to the average Leftist/atheist.
Michael Shermer is one of the more arrogant and condescending individuals who smile and argue incessantly that there IS no God, and they know this with absolute certainty. They just never bother to prove it.

When you say "Penn Teller" you are speaking of two people. One is a fat bigmouth, and the other seems to be his main squeeze, one who never has a word to say, thankfully. His fat pal speaks more than enough for both of them.

Also, can you show me an example from history, American history mind you, where unions were first organized to promote racism and keep blacks out of school? (I'm pretty sure that if American teacher unions were not "in power" by the 1930s, the jackboots of Hitler's Third Reich beat us to it, which is why I specified American history)

Where on EARTH do you get such ideas? I never SAID unions were organized to keep blacks "out of school." I SAID "OUT OF JOBS"!

You're giving powerful evidence to my claims of Leftist misrepresentation.

"Lies are the sine qua non of liberalism."

Now since you think yourself a student of history, why don't you do some work instead of emulating all your leftist friends and DEMANDING this and that of me. In any case, whatever I present, you will instantly reject.

After all, I say "jobs" and you write "school". You can't keep the simplest of ideas straight, obviously. Under such circumstances, debate with you is impossible.

Not to go off topic here, but what does that have to do with the issue of school vouchers? I can believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old and still favor government school vouchers or, I can accept all of that geological and biological evidence and argue against government school vouchers.

"Not to go off topic here" but you have misconstrued and misquoted me repeatedly. What will you do next, claim that I said the earth is 6,000 years old?

Don't bother to answer. I'll converse with somebody else - hopefully someone who can accurately paraphrase me. You can't.

 

[JonathanQuick]

Eliminating tenure (heck, I'll throw in unions too) would be something -- that something still wouldn't fund the education of 64 million schoolchildren without involving government money.

Brilliant, sir. No, really.

Provide for me ONE LINK, just one, where I advocated the elimination of "government money".

I'm not interested in "interim solutions" or gripes about unions. Surely there's a comprehensive plan to give our kids the best education in the world, using 100% private money. (I'll accept links.)

I mean, if there isn't, you can just say so and we'll respect your honesty.

You're not "interested in 'interim solutions' OR gripes about unions" because you only know how to toe the Union Line.

Then you continue on with your "100% private money" scheme.
That is YOUR scheme, and those are YOUR words, not mine.

You can see how exceedingly difficult it is to conduct a discussion when the positions are so very lopsided, me against dozens, perhaps scores of you, and when so many of you twist and pervert almost everything I say.

Whether you do this intentionally or accidentally is almost immaterial.

If it is intentional, such conduct is part and parcel of how unions and their people act.

If it is accidental, then it is indicative of how teachers and other Leftists cannot even accurately quote what lies before them/you, much less discuss it intelligently and fairly.

 

[JonathanQuick]

I'm sure he has loads of "gay" and "black" "friends" as well.

Travis, I have yet to see anything substantive from you, anything at all.

You are expert in One-Liners.

It just so happens that my Best Man was black.

touche and ciao

To my Ignore List you go.

 

[JonathanQuick]

It wouldn't sit well with anyone that wants to see experience rewarded with security. I take it your "atheist, far left-wing friend" was angling for a job he probably wasn't qualified for.

He was a full professor. You constantly "take" things for granted that are absurd.

Here comes another of the things you "take" now!

Only very rarely does a union keep incompetents in jobs they aren't qualified for. Most of the time they are keeping competent people from being abused by management.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Jonathan, you've now made dozens of comments about people misconstruing your meaning from your statements. Could you at some point take the time to briefly explain what it is you are saying? What alternative do you suggest for public education? What steps do you think should be taken to get towards this goal? What problems would this solve?

 

[Alt+F4]

I'm quoting a distinguished professor of economics, who writes syndicated articles regularly. His name is Walter Williams, of George Mason University.

"Above average" says nothing. Professor Williams explicitly states that on average, teachers graduated in the bottom third of their college classes.

Now the average college graduate MAY BE "above average," but that does not begin to contradict Williams.

Williams also states that education majors score lower on the SAT than any other major. The second lowest is sociology.

Our parameter is not EVERYONE, it is college graduates.

Your statisics are useless. It says nothing about college GRADUATES or TEACHERS. All it is stating is the SAT scores of high school juniors and seniors who choose education as a major on the SAT QUESTIONNAIRE.

You have ZERO statistics on how many of those high school students actually DID end up choosing education as their college major.

You have ZERO statistics as to how many of those high school students who did end up choosing education as their major graduated from a teacher education program and actually was employed as a teacher.

Major failure.

 

[JonathanQuick]

Your statisics (SIC) are useless. It says nothing about college GRADUATES or TEACHERS. All it is stating is the SAT scores of high school juniors and seniors who choose education as a major on the SAT QUESTIONNAIRE.

You have ZERO statistics on how many of those high school students actually DID end up choosing education as their college major.

You have ZERO statistics as to how many of those high school students who did end up choosing education as their major graduated from a teacher education program and actually was employed as a teacher.

Major failure.

I suggest you argue with Professor Walter Williams. You can reach him at George Mason University.
He's a brilliant man, and quite up to any challenge YOU can offer.


Incidentally, Professor Williams also notes that on the GRE,* the exam taken by college GRADUATES, or those ABOUT to graduate, education majors LEAP to second from the bottom, and sociology majors take their place in lowest average score.

*GRE means Graduate Record Examination

And now please this, from Plumjam on JREF inhabitants.

 

[excaza]

Jonathan, you've now made dozens of comments about people misconstruing your meaning from your statements. Could you at some point take the time to briefly explain what it is you are saying? What alternative do you suggest for public education? What steps do you think should be taken to get towards this goal? What problems would this solve?

Why would he do any of that when he can just rant about the evil liberals and unions? He doesn't have a solution. Just a bone to pick.

 

[Alt+F4]

I suggest you argue with Professor Walter Williams. You can reach him at George Mason University.
He's a brilliant man, and quite up to any challenge YOU can offer.

Well he's not smart enough to realize he has NO statisics regarding what a 17 year old kid marks on the SAT questionnaire and who actually ends up being an education major. Yikes, it appears he is too stupid to even know that when most high school students take the SAT they haven't even applied to college yet.

Therefore, it's an outright lie for Williams to state, "education majors score lower on the SAT than any other major."

 

[JonathanQuick]

Jonathan, you've now made dozens of comments about people misconstruing your meaning from your statements. Could you at some point take the time to briefly explain what it is you are saying? What alternative do you suggest for public education? What steps do you think should be taken to get towards this goal? What problems would this solve?

Look, an honest, inquiring response. Why are comments like yours so very rare here?

Why is it that most remarks are as snarky, as ignorant, as biased as they can be? Can you answer me that please?
And why are decent people, like you, afraid to challenge the snarky, asinine comments of chimpanzees?

I repeat, a very good friend, and distinguished teacher, told me the MOST IMPORTANT thing that should be done to improve public education is to eliminate tenure.


This will strike a note of fear down the backs of all incompetent teachers. The rest should not worry.

Milton Friedman worked tirelessly to promote school choice - something teachers' unions are completely opposed to, and for the most selfish, most obvious of reasons. Unions don't care about the kids, only about getting more dues. Albert Shanker said as much decades ago.

Get rid of unions, get rid of incompetent teachers, and stop conducting classrooms in such an extremist, left-wing fashion.

Promoting homosexuality and multicultural nonsense have displaced too much reading, writing, and arithmetic.

Parents should be teaching their kids the values they wish.

I would settle on just these things for starters.

Chimps, out of the classroom. You just disrupt and fling poo.