2010 Election Results

Spindrift said:
No. Death panels are just a canard made up by those opposed to healthcare reform.

But you obviously think there's going to be death panels. So once again, what evidence do you have that they will exist and who exactly is going to be on them?
Click to expand...

exactly. The "Death Panel" was a conservative canard abused by Sarah and her pool boys during the health care debate to MISREPRESENT the end of life counseling that any GOOD doctor would have with their older patients.

LIVING WILLS people.

TAM:)
 
logger said:
Its not tough luck, its life
With that said, WHY do you expect someone else to pay for you.


I don't need your evidence.

My insurance is 339 every month for a family of 4
4068 per year

And it would be less than that if the gov would let me
Buy over state lines
make it tax deductable
tort reform (limit settlements to certain amounts)
stop forcing insurance companies to insure certain conditions(allow people to customize ther plans)
Click to expand...

Each to their own I suppose, but I am ok with my tax money helping to provide health care to mothers who are out of work but have families to feed and care for, and even for the otherwise healthy young person who suddenly develops things like Type I Diabetes, or Acute Leukemia.

TAM:)
 
Skeptic said:
Indeed so. Note that this has NOTHING to do with the policies of the republican or democratic party. If Republicans kept using the same strategy they would lose votes in just the same way. "You're an idiot! Can we have your vote?" isn't much of a vote-getter for some reason.
Click to expand...

Odd, I remember being called a hopey-changy, useful idiot Obama zombie.

Those Republicans must have been Democrats!
 
logger said:
No one in the US is denied healthcare
Click to expand...
It's this kind of ignorance that stops this country moving forward on UHC.

Yes, you can get stop gap care in an ED for anything. But you cannot get surgery or chemotherapy for cancer. You cannot get treatment for chronic rheumatoid diseases like RA or lupus. You can't get care for skin conditions like psoriasis. You can't get your rotting teeth fixed. Who do you think is paying for the care for all those Americans without insurance?
 
Last edited:
logger said:
Death panels are true. Who do you think decides on a life saving operation for an old person

Taxing the rich is stupid, who do you think creates ALL the jobs for us "workers"

Get your own evidence, why should we show you anything.
Liberals can go on living in there ignorance.
Click to expand...
Now you are starting to sound like a troll.

The only real death panels are private insurance adjustors.

The death panels lie came from the Pubbies who perhaps at first misunderstood legislation addressing reimbursement for living wills, something the medical community has been encouraging patients to establish for decades but which Medicare was not reimbursing the physicians for their time talking to patients about.

But shortly thereafter, when it was explained to the Pubbies by the medical community that they were totally mistaken, the Pubbies decided it made a good sound bite and began lying about the paragraph. Just as I suspect you either also know or refuse to look at.

A living will is a tool for a patient to tell their doctor if they want to be on a ventilator before the patient ends up comatose in a hospital with no hope of recovery and unable to tell anyone if they want to be on a ventilator or not. Without a living will, any number of people from the hospital administration to the doctor to the family could end up deciding for the patient. Insurers and governments could only decide they would pay for the care or not. Third party payers are never involved in decisions to end advanced life support. Rarely, a hospital administrator might encourage a patient being transferred out of a hospital if they were on unreimbursed advanced life support. But that is extremely rare.

But then you don't want to know the facts, do you? You prefer the simpler version, the lie. I say that because by now, anyone whose hearing is intact would have heard the fact a living will is not a death panel. So if you are ignoring that fact, it has to be by choice.
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
Now you are starting to sound like a troll.

The only real death panels are private insurance adjustors.

The death panels lie came from the Pubbies who perhaps at first misunderstood legislation addressing reimbursement for living wills, something the medical community has been encouraging patients to establish for decades but which Medicare was not reimbursing the physicians for their time talking to patients about.

But shortly thereafter, when it was explained to the Pubbies by the medical community that they were totally mistaken, the Pubbies decided it made a good sound bite and began lying about the paragraph. Just as I suspect you either also know or refuse to look at.

A living will is a tool for a patient to tell their doctor if they want to be on a ventilator before the patient ends up comatose in a hospital with no hope of recovery and unable to tell anyone if they want to be on a ventilator or not. Without a living will, any number of people from the hospital administration to the doctor to the family could end up deciding for the patient. Insurers and governments could only decide they would pay for the care or not. Third party payers are never involved in decisions to end advanced life support. Rarely, a hospital administrator might encourage a patient being transferred out of a hospital if they were on unreimbursed advanced life support. But that is extremely rare.

But then you don't want to know the facts, do you? You prefer the simpler version, the lie. I say that because by now, anyone whose hearing is intact would have heard the fact a living will is not a death panel. So if you are ignoring that fact, it has to be by choice.
Click to expand...

How about my example

Who decides when an elderly woman needs a heart transplant in a gov run healthcare system.

If you come up with an answer I don't like, I promise I won't call you a liar.

I don't mind being a troll, someone has to answer you libs
 
Last edited:
logger said:
Edited by Tricky: 
Edited for rule 12.


Again who decides on life and death surgeries. WHO. Lets say a heart transplant
Click to expand...
Private insurance adjustors decide whether to pay for this care, to not pay for it, or to drop the person's health insurance altogether.

Since there is no public option in the current health care reform, there are no new government agencies involved in these decisions. There have always been medicare and medicaid rules regarding reimbursement for care. These rules tend to be specific and in writing. You NEVER have some adjustor who gets a raise for saving the company money by dropping a sick person's coverage or denying care.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It's this kind of ignorance that stops this country moving forward on UHC.

Yes, you can get stop gap care in an ED for anything. But you cannot get surgery or chemotherapy for cancer. You cannot get treatment for chronic rheumatoid diseases like RA or lupus. You can't get care for skin conditions like psoriasis. You can't get your rotting teeth fixed. Who do you think is paying for the care for all those Americans without insurance?
Click to expand...

Yes there are lots of things in life that are hard decisions in life.

Houses aren't free
cars aren't free
TV isn't free
food isn't free
water isn't free

Lots of things we have to be responsible in life.

I don't subscribe to your collective way of life.

Don't you at least think food should be free though.
Or even water, isn't those two more important than healthcare.
 
logger said:
How about my example

Who decides when an elderly woman needs a heart transplant in a gov run healthcare system.

If you come up with an answer I don't like, I promise I won't call you a liar.

I don't mind being a troll, someone has to answer you libs
Click to expand...

The same people who decide who gets that operation in MY GOVERNMENT RUN system...the doctors.

TAM:)
 
logger said:
So you think the gov is going to give you what you need or what they can afford.
Click to expand...
Actually, the "gov" which right now consists of Medicare and Medicaid tends to underpay the doctor rather than deny anyone's care.

Since none of the proposed public options included eliminating the private insurance companies, everyone would have a choice. But the big insurance companies have been telling lies that the government could somehow compete unfairly.

The Pubbies claim to want the market to control prices. They claim government run insurance would be less efficient than private insurance therefore more costly. Then the insurance companies claim government run health insurance would drive them out of business because they would be less expensive.

You can't have it both ways. If the market is more efficient, then there should be no problem competing with inefficient government insurance plans. Unless you are ignoring reality!
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Private insurance adjustors decide whether to pay for this care, to not pay for it, or to drop the person's health insurance altogether.

Since there is no public option in the current health care reform, there are no new government agencies involved in these decisions. There have always been medicare and medicaid rules regarding reimbursement for care. These rules tend to be specific and in writing. You NEVER have some adjustor who gets a raise for saving the company money by dropping a sick person's coverage or denying care.
Click to expand...

Yes we don't have a public option yet, that is what I'am talking about though. If it was a public option you would have a so called death panel.

I like it the way it is now.
 
logger said:
How about my example

Who decides when an elderly woman needs a heart transplant in a gov run healthcare system.

If you come up with an answer I don't like, I promise I won't call you a liar.

I don't mind being a troll, someone has to answer you libs
Click to expand...
The organ procurement/donor system has a waiting list for organ transplants. An elderly person who was deemed eligible for an available organ, and who was covered by Medicare, would be covered for the operation.

If that same person had private insurance, it would be very likely the decision to pay would be delayed until the organ was no longer available or the patient died. We know that because a top exec. from one of the biggest insurers became a whistle blower and a number of physicians also employed to find reasons to deny claims have also come forward.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Actually, the "gov" which right now consists of Medicare and Medicaid tends to underpay the doctor rather than deny anyone's care.

Since none of the proposed public options included eliminating the private insurance companies, everyone would have a choice. But the big insurance companies have been telling lies that the government could somehow compete unfairly.

The Pubbies claim to want the market to control prices. They claim government run insurance would be less efficient than private insurance therefore more costly. Then the insurance companies claim government run health insurance would drive them out of business because they would be less expensive.

You can't have it both ways. If the market is more efficient, then there should be no problem competing with inefficient government insurance plans. Unless you are ignoring reality!
Click to expand...

So if there underpaying the doctors, how long will the doctors continue serving medicare/medicaid patients

The gov does'nt have to turn a profit that is where they would undermine the insurance companies.

No no, the gov would run the insurance companies out of business, then the annointed one would come in and set up the public healthcare. When gov takes full control you have a run on healthcare, price goes way up. Then comes the panels to ration care. Rationing is the only way the gov can control cost.

See i've spelled it out for you real carefully.
 
logger said:
Yes there are lots of things in life that are hard decisions in life.

Houses aren't free
cars aren't free
TV isn't free
food isn't free
water isn't free

Lots of things we have to be responsible in life.

I don't subscribe to your collective way of life.

Don't you at least think food should be free though.
Or even water, isn't those two more important than healthcare.
Click to expand...
But you don't mind the fact that police and fire are socialist systems then? Think we should disband the corrections service, let everyone out of prison and tell people to buy their own guns?

How about letting every house around yours burn because those folks didn't pay for fire service then hope your house doesn't burn down because the fire got so out of control by the time it reached your house it was too big to stop. How about that?

And were you aware that for those folks who do pay insurance, we get charged for the people who don't pay their bills? I'd prefer that cost was distributed to all taxpayers, myself, rather than simply all people who do pay for their medical care.
 
Last edited:
It looks like Pat Quinn (D) has won the governor's race in Illinois.

... Quinn, who had a 19,400 vote lead over Brady, was declared the winner by the AP after the news service analyzed absentee and provisional ballots and determined that there weren't enough votes left for Brady to overcome Quinn's lead. ...
Click to expand...

And considering as how on election night Quinn's lead was only about 8500 votes and then grew to over 19,000 in 24 hours of counting up absentee ballots, it's looking grim indeed for Brady. But Brady isn't giving up:

... Brady said he won't concede, however, until all the votes are officially counted.
Click to expand...

I sense more drama to come :)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom