Public Education is a Socialist Monopoly

[Schrodinger's Cat]

There happened to be an article out today discussing this subject called, "The Myth of Charter Schools," regarding several films such as "Waiting for Superman" out right now regarding charter vs public schools:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/myth-charter-schools/

Some highlights:

The annual Gallup poll about education shows that Americans are overwhelmingly dissatisfied with the quality of the nation’s schools, but 77 percent of public school parents award their own child’s public school a grade of A or B, the highest level of approval since the question was first asked in 1985

Known as the CREDO study, it evaluated student progress on math tests in half the nation’s five thousand charter schools and concluded that 17 percent were superior to a matched traditional public school; 37 percent were worse than the public school; and the remaining 46 percent had academic gains no different from that of a similar public school. The proportion of charters that get amazing results is far smaller than 17 percent.

Why did he not look into the charter schools whose leaders are paid $300,000–$400,000 a year to oversee small numbers of schools and students?

 

[TFian]

This quote was my favorite

It bears mentioning that nations with high-performing school systems—whether Korea, Singapore, Finland, or Japan—have succeeded not by privatizing their schools or closing those with low scores, but by strengthening the education profession. They also have less poverty than we do. Fewer than 5 percent of children in Finland live in poverty, as compared to 20 percent in the United States. Those who insist that poverty doesn’t matter, that only teachers matter, prefer to ignore such contrasts.

I'm involved with a public school teacher, and from what I hear, it's "All work and no appreciation".

 

[Cleon]

I'm involved with a public school teacher, and from what I hear, it's "All work and no appreciation".

It really is. Teachers get it from all sides; they're convenient scapegoats for administrators, politicians, parents, and students.

 

[TFian]

It really is. Teachers get it from all sides; they're convenient scapegoats for administrators, politicians, parents, and students.

On top of that, pretty insulting wages. It's not even remotely proportional to the service they provide.

 

[bikerdruid]

On top of that, pretty insulting wages. It's not even remotely proportional to the service they provide.

i'm a retired teacher. however, with my education and experience, in alberta, my annual salary would be about $100,000/year.
working conditions and class sizes are the major concerns here, not teacher's pay.

 

[TFian]

i'm a retired teacher. however, with my education and experience, in alberta, my annual salary would be about $100,000/year.
working conditions and class sizes are the major concerns here, not teacher's pay.

I'm sure it varies between Canadian provinces and US states. In the public schools I went to, along with the one my partner works at, all the teachers complained about the pay, proclaiming that they should be more for the type of work they do. He makes pretty low himself as well.

 

[Vorticity]

Educational achievement.

No other quantity can exceed educational achievement's correlation coefficient of 1 with itself.

You say absolutely nothing, and think yourself clever.

Whatever you say, Edgar Allan.

I give you flippant responses because I simply don't believe in the reality of the character you're inhabiting.

At any rate, my statement above is literally correct. You asked "What is the strongest correlate to educational achievement?" It is certainly true that no two numeric quantities can possess a correlation coeffcient greater than one, and that the correlation coefficient of any quantity with itself is one.

In lieu of the traditional posting of kitten pictures and recipes I might, if I feel so inclined later, prove this fact in this thread, using the Cauchy-Schwartz inequality.

The physicist had absolutely nothing to contribute as well.

Another physicist here, incidentally. (With a PhD, since you seem to place value on such things...)

Vorticity desperately needs to look up "correlate."

Uh-huh.

But never mind all that, Edgar. The important thing here is that there are probably some typos and misspellings in this post.

(Mods: If you choose to move this post because I refer to the fact that JQ here is clearly a spouse of Virginia Clemm, please at least leave the bit above about correlation coefficients. Thanks.)

 

[Vorticity]

Blast! I see he's been suspended.

Ping-pong interruptus.

 

[Mark R]

This: http://www.air.org/reports-products/index.cfm?fa=viewContent&content_id=221
"this report considers six nonschool factors that are related to student achievement. These are the highest level of education attained by either of the students’ parents; the highest occupational status of either of the students’ parents; the number of books that students have access to in the home; whether students speak the native language of the country at home; students’ immigrant status; and students’ family structure."
But these are just the non-school factors. Other studies have focused on school factors, such as teacher preparation and availability of textbooks.

I did not mean to indicate that parental involvement is the only indicator. Of course there is an assortment of factors that impact students achievement, both in and out of the classroom.

It is the factors I cannot control that makes teaching tough sometimes. Just today one of the best students I have ever had missed a fairly large assignment, which is completely unlike her. When I inquired why she mentioned her parents are getting divorce and it is affecting her.

I would hate to see her loose her way because of this, and I will do my best to see she does not, but we all know it happens.

 

[Mark R]

Well, the quality of the teacher in the room is a big one, as well. Probably, in my view, the most important thing.

But then, I already mentioned that in my previous post criticizing teacher preparation

My school got several teachers transferred in that were previously working at a continuation school for several years.

The study guide one of the teachers provided for his students made its way to the district and contributed to this teacher no longer being at our school. This study guide looked like someone barely literate wrote it. There was no proper capitalization or punctuation and it was written in a mix of English and Spanish. Not translated mind you, but all mixed together in some barely comprehensible manner.

What stuck out the most to me was instead of George Washington it was Jorge Washington. This was a high school U.S. history class...I do not think getting the name of the first president right is too much to ask.

So yes, teacher quality is a significant issue in education. Unfortunately, it is not usually this easy to spot an ineffective teacher.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Or to get rid of one, at any level ranging from kindergarden to graduate school, once they get tenure.

 

[John Jones]

You say absolutely nothing, and think yourself clever.

The physicist had absolutely nothing to contribute as well.

Zero from the lot of you in response to a very important question that nobody here can answer, notwithstanding your incredible pretensions of enlightenment and brilliance about all things educational.

Here again is the question:

What is the strongest correlate to educational achievement?

Every teacher should know this, but I have yet to meet one who does.
I believe the physicist will get closest to it, but I'm quite sure he will miss it.

Vorticity desperately needs to look up "correlate."

The highest correlate to educational achievement is the educational level of the subject's father.

Men in prison have all too often fathered children who will have lives of privation and ignorance.

Men with doctorates and masters' degrees, on the other hand, understand the value of family relationships, and education, and their offspring tend to do well in schools for obvious reasons.

[...]QUOTE]

That's it? That's your point?

Educated fathers tend to raise educated children?

Hey! It works for me.

Is anybody opposed to this platitude?

 

[majamin]

Vorticity desperately needs to look up "correlate."

No, he doesn't. Corr(X,X)=1 for any random variable X. See Vorticity's response here.

Anyways, there are many variables to consider. "Being alive" or "student achievement" being correlated to "student achievement" isn't interesting, so it's a question of which variables, at the community/school/student level, correlate with student achievement. You've been given a few responses by different posters. Kindly go up and read them JQ, and then reply.

 

[majamin]

Blast! I see he's been suspended.

Ping-pong interruptus.

Why? (well, I think I know why, but what specifically?)

 

[Vorticity]

Why? (well, I think I know why, but what specifically?)

Well, I see he got some yellow cards here and here...

 

[bozman]

That boy ain't right.

Nah, I don't have a problem with him. He's a bit abrasive, but he makes people think. Sort of.

 

[majamin]

Well, I see he got some yellow cards here and here...

I guess this is why I'm not a moderator, but why where these posts flagged? I've seen worse, and deserved vitriol directed at nutcases around here by decent people trying to express themselves. It doesn't make him any less infuriating to converse with, of course.

 

[lionking]

That boy ain't right.

Nah, I don't have a problem with him. He's a bit abrasive, but he makes people think. Sort of.

If "think" is a synonym for beating your head against the wall, I suppose you're right.

 

[SezMe]

I guess this is why I'm not a moderator, but why where these posts flagged? I've seen worse, and deserved vitriol directed at nutcases around here by decent people trying to express themselves. It doesn't make him any less infuriating to converse with, of course.

I flagged one of his/her posts but am not sure if it was one cited by Vorticity. The problem is not, IMO, the vitriol in any one post but the fact that no matter the thread topic, JQ will inevitably go off topic to rag on the evil liburels. So the issue is spam.

 

[bozman]

If "think" is a synonym for beating your head against the wall, I suppose you're right.

Like this?

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