Public Education is a Socialist Monopoly

[Vorticity]

Spoken like a true liberal. I present the ideas of well-known figures, one of whom was a Nobel Laureate, and the other president of a teachers' union, and you call me a "conservatard."...

So, naturalists observe, a troll
Hath smaller trolls that on him prey
And these have smaller still to slight 'em
And so proceed ad infinitum.

 

[Madalch]

So, naturalists observe, a troll
Hath smaller trolls that on him prey
And these have smaller still to slight 'em
And so proceed ad infinitum.

I thought it was:
Greater whorls have little whorls
Which feed on their velocity
And little whorls have lesser whorls
And so on to viscosity.

 

[Vorticity]

I thought it was:
Greater whorls have little whorls
Which feed on their velocity
And little whorls have lesser whorls
And so on to viscosity.

Close. It's:

Greater trolls have little trolls
Which feed on their verbosity
And little trolls have lesser trolls
And so on to ferocity.

 

[Roboramma]

Spoken like a true liberal. I present the ideas of well-known figures, one of whom was a Nobel Laureate, and the other president of a teachers' union, and you call me a "conservatard."

I don't think its the fact that you were quoting a Nobel Laureate that he took exception to. It's the fact that your quote was taken out of context.
Do you disagree that your quote was taken out of context?

 

[GreyArea]

Say, you're not a Democrat, are you?

...facts matter little to those on the left.

The left... ...One such leftist...

...how the left reviled President Bush... But when a lefty does likewise...

...typical of the left...

...the left, which category clearly includes you...

Yes indeed, condescension and arrogance are always "perfectly valid" to you leftists.

The left is always eager to rewrite history.... ...too goofy for even leftists. ...whom leftists choose to ignore... Riddle me that, lefty.

...any leftist or atheist... ...expect non-answers from the left. ...spin for the left...

...your many leftist pals...

...leftists and atheists put their words and their prejudices...

...he classified himself as a liberal.... ...a "compassionate" (ha, ha, ha) liberal... ...liberal mantra...

...leftists would use against me... ...which leftists pretend I cannot... ...He calls himself a liberal... ...liberal John Kerry...
A. San Franciscans make much, much more than Kansans, and
B. San Franciscans are liberals, and Kansans are conservatives.

Leftists should read... ... and other lefties who are almost always quite hateful.

...never a fellow liberal... ...a lifelong atheist...

...The problem with leftists...

"Public education is a socialist monopoly, a real one." - Milton Friedman

...No, leftists are wrong. Barack Obama, the pathological narcissist and destructive socialist, is wrong.
Albert Einstein was wrong when he rejected science in favor of his atheist dogma.
Leftists who promote and support the butchering of innocent, unborn babies are not just wrong, but evil.
...the latest criminal enterprise of the greedy left...

Spoken like a true liberal... ... liberal lessons...

...the left has reviled and ridiculed... ...a LEFTIST, like you... ...your fellow leftists. ...double standard by the left? Ready, march: Left, left, left left left.

...all marching in absolute lockstep...

...your pal and fellow liberal...

Name-calling is the sine qua non of liberal argumentation....

[This forum] is SUPPOSED to consist of intelligent discussions, not petty name-calling...

...desist with your pernicious attacks. You have little else but attacks.

Are you sure you disapprove of name-calling? You seem to use "leftist" and "liberal" and "socialist" as if they were epithets and perfect synonyms. They are neither. Yet I think I can hear a sneer every time you type them.

Maybe you should trade in your hobby-horse for a bicycle. Then ride it to the hardware store and take a long look at the paint supplies. There are more shades available than just black and white, and not all the brushes are broad.


Furthermore,

...on the Culture...

The Culture? I resemble that remark!

...in your pre-eminent Majesterium...

The Magisterium? You resemble that remark!

Your understanding of science and rational discussion needs help. It's even worse than baddies in novels. You should calm down, lurk for a while, maybe ask a question every so often and listen to the answers, and think before typing. People will respond much better to you if you take these steps.

 

[Weak Kitten]

Anyway, you've vented your rage at the current system. That's nice and all but do you have a viable alternative?

Don't say privatizing the schools, that's a whole big can of worms with just as much corruption, waste and poor management. Plus it would seriously impact our supply of inexpensive educated individuals in the workforce. Even janitors need to know how to read in the modern world.

 

[Doubt]

2. No, schools are NOT using money correctly. Their administrative staffs are bloated. They keep incompetent teachers. And they pay them too much. At my district, teachers top out at over $95,000 for 9 months work.
Sickening, particularly when teachers graduate in the bottom third of their college classes, on average.

Name the district so we may have a chance to verify this $95,000 salary.

 

[Ysidro]

Anyway, you've vented your rage at the current system. That's nice and all but do you have a viable alternative?

Don't say privatizing the schools, that's a whole big can of worms with just as much corruption, waste and poor management. Plus it would seriously impact our supply of inexpensive educated individuals in the workforce. Even janitors need to know how to read in the modern world.

Nonsense! If those janitors need to read they can teach themselves! They don't need any fancy education or books or words or anything!

 

[Chucky]

"Public education is a socialist monopoly, a real one." - Milton Friedman

There is no correlation between educational spending and educational achievement. None. The pretense that more money will "solve" the problem has been argued by teachers' unions for decades, utterly without success.

It is truly shameful.

Albert Shanker said "When kids start paying union dues, I'll start representing them."

Shanker was the president of the American Federation of Teachers for years.

delete

 

[Weak Kitten]

Nonsense! If those janitors need to read they can teach themselves! They don't need any fancy education or books or words or anything!

Yeah, it's not like janitors need to be able to read the cleaner bottles to see what ingredients they contain. There's nothing wrong with mixing cleaners! That giddy feeling you get when you mix ammonia and bleach is perfectly safe!

 

[Craig4]

Still waiting for that alternative.

 

[cwalner]

Name the district so we may have a chance to verify this $95,000 salary.

That does not seem that far fetched to me. IIRC, I remember once seeing the salary tier for the OUSD (Orange County, CA) that topped out around 70k and that was about 20 years ago.

However, to get that amount, you have to be in the district for over 15 years, have a Masters Degree and have taken extra ongoing courses in education.

If someone is willing to dedicate that much to being a High School teacher, then $95k seems like very fair compensation to me.

The bit that I doubted was the statement that teachers generally graduate in the bottom 1/3 of their class.

 

[Mark R]

Like most problems you are not going to solve education just by throwing more money at it. It has to be targeted in order to be effective.

A simplification I frequently see by people who protest more spending on education is to only look at the dollar amount and not place it in the proper context. The schools with the greatest need are going to require more funds than schools that are doing well.

Consider it this way. You have two homeowners. Owner A has a nice house, nothing fancy but everything is working. If he suddenly finds himself with $10,000 he has to spend on his house, there is a lot of little things he can spend that money on to improve the house. Now lets take owner B. His house just burned to the ground. He is also given $10,000 that must be spent on his house. While that money is nice to have, it is certainly not going to get him even with owner A. He is starting so far behind, more money will be required just to achieve parity with where owner A started from.

Again, I readily admit more money itself does not solve problems, but it is a necessary component to enact measures that will address many of the problems education faces.

 

[ThermionicScott]

Y'know, it's not just funny that the OP doesn't have a better (non-socialist) idea for education, but that in ~12 hours, no one else seems to, either...

- Scott

 

[lionking]

Still waiting for that alternative.

Of course there's a solution, silly. The government just has to get out of the way and allow good, hard workers to earn enough to send their kids to expensive private schools. But many won't be able to do that regardless of the system, you say? Well that's just tough. The children of the poor won't contribute anything, so why waste money on their education.

 

[lionking]

Y'know, it's not just funny that the OP doesn't have a better (non-socialist) idea for education, but that in ~12 hours, no one else does either...

- Scott

The dual tier system in Australia, with public schools educating the majority, works quite fine, thanks very much.

 

[ThermionicScott]

The dual tier system in Australia, with public schools educating the majority, works quite fine, thanks very much.

Ah, but you're saying there's a place for government-funded schools. I wonder if the OP agrees with that much.

After all, public schools educate the majority of students here in America, as well...

- Scott

 

[lionking]

Ah, but you're saying there's a place for government-funded schools. I wonder if the OP agrees with that much.

After all, public schools educate the majority of students here in America, as well...

- Scott

As you say, the OP has not put forward an alternative to publically funded education in an advanced economy. That's because there isn't one.

 

[Roboramma]

As you say, the OP has not put forward an alternative to publically funded education in an advanced economy. That's because there isn't one.

At least not a viable one that works, anyway. Which explains ThermionicScott's observation that no one has been able to find one so far.

 

[Finn McR]

Y'know, it's not just funny that the OP doesn't have a better (non-socialist) idea for education, but that in ~12 hours, no one else seems to, either...

- Scott

Dude, sorry, but my irony and "thinky" meter are all broken by this time of night (0254 EST), but it seems to me that the importance of public education, and thus the "idea" for education is a problem of a hundred or so years. I am hoping that it is irony that I am missing in the , "~12 hours" comment. And, hey, if I'm right... good one, FTW!