Science Disproves Evolution

[godless dave]

I point out Darwin's hateful racism,

You did no such thing. All you did was tell lies about what Darwin said.

There is SO "no controversy" that National Geographic magazine featured a "missing link" a few years ago on its cover.

National Geographic is not a science journal.

And the smooth transition of millions of fossils.... nowhere to be found.
They were promised,

No, they were never promised. Nobody expected to find a smooth transition of fossils of every species that had ever lived.

I am reminded of the words of a prominent Darwinist when a fossil supposed to be transitional between land based mammals and the whales was claimed to be "the most beautiful a Darwinist could hope for."

What does this transition to a whale look like? A crocodile.

Your point? Crocodiles are semi-aquatic animals, animals that live partly on land and partly in the water. That's what you would expect of one of the ancestors of whales.

 

[Marduk]

And the smooth transition of millions of fossils.... nowhere to be found.

well theres this

which proves that God didn't do it eh

I am reminded of the words of a prominent Darwinist when a fossil supposed to be transitional between land based mammals and the whales was claimed to be "the most beautiful a Darwinist could hope for."

What does this transition to a whale look like? A crocodile.

You are missing quite a lot of data there, are you not aware of the other transitional forms between Mesonychids and Cetaceans, theres quite a few, and none of them look like a crocodile, where did you get that from ?
source please

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Can anyone (who's not too busy axe-grinding) tell me what "Neo-Darwinism" is?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

It's an easier to understand name for modern evolutionary theory, AKA "The Modern Synthesis". Formulated in the early 20th century IIRC to incorporate Darwin's ideas with new knowledge of genetics.

ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Darwinism

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Ta.

 

[Marduk]

Can anyone (who's not too busy axe-grinding) tell me what "Neo-Darwinism" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Darwinism

 

[JonathanQuick]

I went back and edited to invite him to argue racism in Descent of Man as well, but what JonathanQuick claimed to start this whole thing was that Origin of Species was full of racism. I don't believe anything in Descent of Man is either racist or incorrect (other than in a modern "political" sense) but it doesn't change the fact that that JonathanQuick was relying on BS internet rumor, rather than Origin of Species, for his claim.

How unscientific and erroneous of you to accuse ME of "relying on BS internet rumor" while you are posting on the internet.

In fact, I am citing from Answering the New Atheism: Dismantling Dawkins' Case Against God, by Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker.

"One of Dawkins' fellow atheists, philosopher and Darwinist advocate Michael Ruse, has said even more harshly, "The God Delusion makes me embarrassed to be an atheist...." - Ibid, page 3

"In fact the proportion of insult, ridicule, mockery, spleen, and vitriol is astounding [ in Dawkins' book]". - Philosopher Alvin Platinga

Leftists should read books contrary to their dogmas. I have read many nonsensical books by Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan, Michael Ruse, and other lefties who are almost always quite hateful.

 

[Marduk]

There is SO "no controversy" that National Geographic magazine featured a "missing link" a few years ago on its cover. It was, like so many other "missing links," a fraud, but hey, to Darwinists, frauds are "no controversy."

thats quite funny, there already exists transitional animals between birds and lizards that aren't frauds, what Nat Geo got conned into buying into was actually a "new missing link of the same type"

It in no way disproves the already understood descent of birds from lizards
like this one, which you are either ignorant of or just decided not to mention
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx
a lie by omission is still a lie, and your deceptions aren't of a level which will pass on this forum, trying being a little more honest and you'll do better

 

[Marduk]

How unscientific and erroneous of you to accuse ME of "relying on BS internet rumor" while you are posting on the internet.

He was asking you to substantiate your earlier claim, you still havent and moving the goalposts is a losing strategy

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Now as to evolution, please explain the mechanism for the synthesis of human hemoglobin. State the number of amino acids in the alpha and the beta chains. Tell readers how many amino acids are used in this sequence, and state the probability of producing this formulation from random mutation, followed by natural selection.

The mechanism is the slow and gradual change of DNA. Even though we don't know the exact path to hemoglobin we know there is connected netowrk of DNA amongst the creatures on the planet. All creatures have a close relative somewhere (maybe in a few cases a "somewhen"). Unless you are going to deny that DNA contains the information for hemoglobin (and any other biological aspect you can think of) you can't deny there is a plausible path to get there.

Will there not be sufficient evidence to accept electrical theory until the exact path of a lightning bolt can be predicted?

 

[JonathanQuick]

well theres this
[qimg]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/belmarduk/fossil-hominid-skulls-1.jpg[/qimg]
which proves that God didn't do it eh


You are missing quite a lot of data there, are you not aware of the other transitional forms between Mesonychids and Cetaceans, theres quite a few, and none of them look like a crocodile, where did you get that from ?
source please

Ambulocetus natans

"Hooking Leviathian by its Past," Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, May 1994

 

[godless dave]

How unscientific and erroneous of you to accuse ME of "relying on BS internet rumor" while you are posting on the internet.

In fact, I am citing from Answering the New Atheism: Dismantling Dawkins' Case Against God, by Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker.

"One of Dawkins' fellow atheists, philosopher and Darwinist advocate Michael Ruse, has said even more harshly, "The God Delusion makes me embarrassed to be an atheist...." - Ibid, page 3

"In fact the proportion of insult, ridicule, mockery, spleen, and vitriol is astounding [ in Dawkins' book]". - Philosopher Alvin Platinga

Leftists should read books contrary to their dogmas. I have read many nonsensical books by Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan, Michael Ruse, and other lefties who are almost always quite hateful.

Leftists? I thought we were talking about science and religion, not politics.

And are you seriously calling Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan hateful? I defy you to find one hateful statement by either of those men.

 

[Marduk]

Ambulocetus natans

"Hooking Leviathian by its Past," Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, May 1994

Crocodiles have scales,

next you'll be telling me that cats dogs and mice all look the same

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Ambulocetus natans. LOL. So you meant vaguely shaped like a crocodile. Ambulocetus and crocodiles aren't even in the same class.

 

[JonathanQuick]

The mechanism is the slow and gradual change of DNA. Even though we don't know the exact path to hemoglobin we know there is connected netowrk of DNA amongst the creatures on the planet. All creatures have a close relative somewhere (maybe in a few cases a "somewhen"). Unless you are going to deny that DNA contains the information for hemoglobin (and any other biological aspect you can think of) you can't deny there is a plausible path to get there.

Will there not be sufficient evidence to accept electrical theory until the exact path of a lightning bolt can be predicted?

You're mixing lightning and polypeptides. Let's get back to living systems, shall we?

"There is a plausible path to get there" is hardly science.

Shall we simply invoke your "plausible path" to every problem in science?

How shall we cure pneumonia? Is there such a thing as an antibiotic?

"There is a plausible path to get there."

Well, all right then! Problem solved!

Back to hemoglobin.

The alpha chain is duplicated by the beta chain. This greatly simplifies the synthesis. This duplication reduces the number of amino acids in sequence to 264.

To calculate the number of ways 20 amino acids can be arranged in a sequence 264 amino acids long, multiply 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 x 20.... a total of 264 times. Call it 10 to the 343rd power. And remember, there are only 10 to the 80th fundamental particles in the universe, to give you some perspective of large numbers.

That evolution managed to find this one unique way will of course require an almost equivalent number of intermediaries, which YOU claim are "useful" and can "be selected".

Name just 10,000 of those intermediaries, please, and explain what they were useful for.

Look like a daunting problem to you? No?
It sure does to me.

And please no more of your invoking a "holy book." We're talking science here.

 

[godless dave]

Ambulocetus natans

"Hooking Leviathian by its Past," Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, May 1994

Again, what's your point? That ancestor of whales looked sort of like a crocodile, as expected? So what?

Here's a link to a photo of the fossil for those interested: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Ambulocetus_et_pakicetus.jpg

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Well, all right then! Problem solved!

I said we didn't know the exact path to hemoglobin. That doesn't even come close to overturnmg all the evidence that all creatures are related and there are extant creatures with similar DNA for nearly all creatures on the planet.

 

[JonathanQuick]

Leftists? I thought we were talking about science and religion, not politics.

And are you seriously calling Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan hateful? I defy you to find one hateful statement by either of those men.

Dave, Dave, Dave. Come on. Get a grip.

"Anyone who does not believe in evolution is either ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked." - Richard Dawkins

"The Pope is evil." - Richard Dawkins

"You are stupid." - Richard Dawkins in an e-mail to me after I found many errors in his books.

Let me give you just one silly example: "An elephant consists of about a trillion colonies of bacteria."

Sagan maliciously attacked Ronald and Nancy Reagan, but never a fellow liberal. Sagan attacked Christians, and did so ignorantly: "You can pray or you can innoculate," portraying Christians as dolts.

Evidently it did not occur to Sagan that:

A. Most all Christians do get innoculations, and
B. You CAN do both, get vaccinated AND pray at the same time.

Here is a guy who was a lifelong atheist, and whose memorial service was held in a Catholic Church in New York City, St. John the Divine.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Jonathan, you appear to have a lot to say, but you don't appear to be saying a lot. I'm trying really hard to discover what your point is. Could you spell it out for me? Disregarding your distaste for people of certain political ideologies (that's neither here nor there), what are you trying to prove? That evolution by natural selection is wrong? If so, please state your case.

Thanks.

 

[JonathanQuick]

Again, what's your point? That ancestor of whales looked sort of like a crocodile, as expected? So what?

The closest living relative to whales in terms of DNA is the hippo.
You're not looking to any "point". You seek no dialogue.
You are a committed atheist, as demonstrated in your very screen name.

There is a splendid book titled The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict.

It is probably the best documented book I have ever read, with hundreds and hundreds of citations, referencing college professors, historians, archaeologists and other scholars.

If you were really interested in learning, you would read this and other books of a similar nature, which run counter to your dogma.

I do this all the time. The problem with leftists is that they have this knee-jerk reaction to anything outside their own narrow credo.