Is alcoholism a disease or something else?

[MikeSun5]

What we are saying is that the extreme addiction that occurs in some people but not in others is a disease.

Then call it "Addiction Disorder" or something instead of "Alcoholism the Disease" Classify it along side gambling, smoking cigarettes, smoking crack, etc. Don't classify it with things like gonorrhea and liver disease. The addiction is a psychological issue. Children aren't born with alcoholism.

The American Medical Assocation has called it a disease since 1956

I think what Weak Kitten was saying explains why this is so. Calling something a disease raises awareness about a subject, so I'd imagine that was the AMA's motivation for that rather than giving a great excuse to someone who wants to abuse alcohol and get away with it guilt-free. (cut to Randy Marsh from South Park seated in an unnecessary wheelchair sipping a beer: "Sorry, son. Your father has a disease.")

I think that's why diabetes is a similar example.

Diabetes is still not a good enough example. Becoming an alcoholic takes dedication. It takes a long time and it takes lots of money. There is not some chemical deficiency in your body that causes you to walk to the corner store, remove money from your pocket, buy a bottle, and drink the whole thing. It is a conscious choice that you make. No other "disease" has that characteristic.

If abstinence is the only cure/manager, then teen pregnancy must also a disease, right? Obesity, internet porn, shooting heroin... all diseases, right? Consistency, people....

 

[zerospeaks]

"There is not some chemical deficiency in your body that causes you to walk to the corner store, remove money from your pocket, buy a bottle, and drink the whole thing."

My wife is yelling that the National Institute of Health disagrees with you.
I apparently have no say so in this debate anymore..

 

[Brattus]

I second this. Most of the people I've seen who claim it's a disease (yes, I've been to some court mandated AA meetings for silly reasons in the past) are either making excuses for someone they love or not willing to come to terms with the guilt of drinking yourself to oblivion.

My wife is yelling that the National Institute of Health disagrees with you.
I apparently have no say so in this debate anymore..

Here it is again just in case your wife missed it the first time.

 

[Dinwar]

My wife is yelling that the National Institute of Health disagrees with you.

Unelss the definition of a disease is "Anything the NIH says is one", this is irrelevant. Their reasoning may not be, but without that this is merely an appeal to authority in an issue where the validity of authority in general is up for debate.

Well, my wife got extremely mad at the "Obesity is not a disease" comment and she said with great anger that in fact it was, and the poster obviously did not know what he/she was saying.

...and this is an appeal to emotion. As a matter of fact I DO know what I'm talking about--I'm not obese myself but I know many who are, including my wife. It's cause by a number of factors, ranging from diet to lifestyle to genetics. Obesity is perhas best viewed as a symptom--it's like calling a runny nose a disease.

Alcoholism is similar--it's a symptom of something. There's some reason the person decided to drink themselves to death, and merely taking the bottle away doesn't help (know this from experience--my family has a number of alcoholics, and I've seen more than one ruin their lives). What that problem is may be a disease (my wife's grandfather drank heavily because the alcohol numbed the pain of his bone cancer, and when you've got six months to a year liver damage isn't a major concern) it very well might not (one uncle drank himself out of a job out of guilt for an affair he was having). Treating "alcoholism" makes exactly as much sense, and for exactly the same reason, as treating any other symptom while ignoring the cause. The patient will still end up six feet under.

Obesity, internet porn, shooting heroin... all diseases, right? Consistency, people....

Stop giving bureaucrats ideas, or I will wack you with a rolled-up newspaper!

 

[zerospeaks]

My wife:

So... most of the people, because he has been to AA meetings. I like his sample of people. [Sarcasm] He's right though, the animals we test are just being lazy and looking for excuses to drink. I hate people, this is why I do animal research.
I refuse to spend my Friday night looking up actual data to give to unreasonable people.

Shes still rambling " I am glad he has such a scientific sample from going to AA meetings...
Apparently it hit a nerve.

I am like the child in the room now.

 

[zerospeaks]

From my wife... Her final response. She wants to be left out of this.

Thank you very much for your informative anecdotal evidence Dinwar. How naive of me to listen to major scientific research groups, my apologies.

She is beyond furious and is in her most Italian fury. Talking about how you guys are the ones that set research back because of your uninformed opinions.
I'm apparently done here.

No rational discourse can happen now.
You guys continue without me[her].

She also added

Let me stay in the lab and you people have discussions

I'm gonna try to watch a movie with her now, you guys have fun!

 

[AlBell]

This post tells it like it is and answers the thread question quite nicely!

Rang the bell on your confirmation bias anyway.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh28-1/30-37.pdf

Clinicians can use several biochemical measurements to objectively assess patients’ current or
past alcohol use. However, none of these currently available biomarkers—including measures of various liver enzymes and blood volume—are ideal. Several more experimental markers hold promise for measuring acute alcohol consumption and relapse. These include certain alcohol byproducts, such as acetaldehyde, ethyl glucuronide (EtG), and fatty acid ethyl esters (FAEE), as well as two measures of sialic acid, a carbohydrate that appears to be altered in alcoholics. Some progress has been made in finding markers that predict people’s genetic predisposition to alcoholism, such as genetic differences in several neurotransmitters, including beta-endorphin and gamma-aminobutryic acid (GABA).

But, nah, just a bunch of weak-willed moral degenerates.

 

[MikeSun5]

She wants to be left out of this.

She was never in this. Your posting her reactions doesn't include her in the conversation because we can't respond to her Italian fury. I would be interested to hear her explain how alcoholism is the same as Lou Gherig's disease, but she wants to be left out of this.

 

[zerospeaks]

"She was never in this. Your posting her reactions doesn't include her in the conversation because we can't respond to her Italian fury. I would be interested to hear her explain how alcoholism is the same as Lou Gherig's disease, but she wants to be left out of this.

Please don't stoke the fire.

 

[zerospeaks]

According to my wife, Albell completely hit the nail on the head.

I officially change my original stance.

Alcoholism is a disease.
I didn't see the scientific papers on this research. I spoke uninformed.

 

[MatildaGage]

This is awesome! It's not my fault, I have a disease.
I have no control over whether I drink eat donuts or not, it is the disease!!
Alright! Now I can shift the blame to the disease, I am going to drink upeat lots of donuts tonight!

....and my wife can't get mad.... cuz I have a disease (Diabetes)... I can't help it.

Fixed that for you.

Usually when people get all hung up on which word to use (disease or disorder), it's because they think "disease" means "it's caused by my body and I have no responsibility for managing my disease".

Not true.

But I ask again, what difference does it make?

 

[FattyCatty]

Where is your evidence that alcoholism can only be managed and not cured (apart from AA, that is)? I don't consider alcoholism to be incurable. I am not drinking now, and if I keep it up, I would take great offence to someone calling me an alcoholic.

Per this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/disease_theory_of_alcoholism, alcoholism is treatable, no cure; a chronic, life-long disease. There are references.

Per this link alcoholism-support.org/alcohol-addoctopm.html:

Alcohol addiction cannot be cured. It will forever remain a part of a person’s makeup. However, when it comes to alcohol addiction, there is good news and bad news. The good news is that alcohol can be treated and managed. Alcoholics can live successful lives. The bad news is that they are always vulnerable to relapse if they take a drink.

Per this link , the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism of the National Institutes of Health says:

...alchoholism is chronic, meaning that it lasts a person's lifetime;...

and

Can alcoholism be cured? No, alcoholism cannot be cured at this time. Even if an alcoholic hasn't been drinking for a long time, he or she can still suffer a relapse. Not drinking is the safest course for most people with alcoholism.

<snip>
The man said it plain. Those who call it a disease are covering up for loved ones or not wanting to own their personal problem with alcohol.

Matter of fact calling alcoholism a disease is insulting to those people fighting for their lives with real diseases.
Those people are fighting to not be dead. They are not merely trying to manage something so their loved ones or boss won't be mad at them.

I totally disagree. I am not covering up for anyone, nor are the scientists and doctors who consider alcoholism a disease. Nor is any disease insulting to those with other diseases. There are lots of diseases with varying degrees of effect, severity, and immediacy in terms of death. One person's pain or suffering does not negate another's.

By the way, alcoholism certainly can kill people. It killed my step-brother when he was only in his 30s.

My wife is yelling that the National Institute of Health disagrees with you.
I apparently have no say so in this debate anymore..

Your wife is right.

Unelss the definition of a disease is "Anything the NIH says is one", this is irrelevant. Their reasoning may not be, but without that this is merely an appeal to authority in an issue where the validity of authority in general is up for debate.
<snip>

As I have twice posted previously, NIAAA (part of NIH) is not the only organization to call alcoholism a disease. And they do show reasons, if you bother to look.

Alcoholism is similar--it's a symptom of something. There's some reason the person decided to drink themselves to death, and merely taking the bottle away doesn't help (know this from experience--my family has a number of alcoholics, and I've seen more than one ruin their lives). What that problem is may be a disease (my wife's grandfather drank heavily because the alcohol numbed the pain of his bone cancer, and when you've got six months to a year liver damage isn't a major concern) it very well might not (one uncle drank himself out of a job out of guilt for an affair he was having). Treating "alcoholism" makes exactly as much sense, and for exactly the same reason, as treating any other symptom while ignoring the cause. The patient will still end up six feet under.
<snip>

Part of what leads to alcoholism is an altered brain structure and function. I'm sure there are people who self-medicate with alcohol because of other problems; however, it is common for there to be a dual diagnosis of addiction and mental illness. It doesn't mean the alcoholism doesn't exist along with the other disease.

 

[MikeSun5]

Rang the bell on your confirmation bias anyway.

Confirmation bias, indeed! Your misunderstanding of that article rang your bell, didn't it? Your article dealt with markers of past and current use. They're not at the predicting alcoholics stage yet. Here's an exerpt from your linky:

Finally, more research is necessary before clinically useful trait markers of genetic predisposition to alcohol dependence are fully developed. The markers first must be validated clinically by testing people before they develop alcoholism and waiting to see how well the marker predicts later behavior. As researchers further develop the markers described here and discover more biomarkers, their work should greatly improve clinicians’ ability to objectively assess alcohol consumption as well as genetic predisposition to alcohol use disorders.

Notice the phrase "alcohol use disorders." I like that. Has a nice ring to it.

But, nah, just a bunch of weak-willed moral degenerates.

Straw man, much? I have alcoholics in my family. Both my parents, a few uncles, and one of my uncles even died from alcoholism. Complications from cirrhosis and diabetes, to be exact. The man was an alcoholic, but died from complications from cirrhosis and diabetes (two actual diseases).

 

[MikeSun5]

Please don't stoke the fire.

Hey pal, YOU'RE the one adding fuel to the flames if you keep telling her what these posts say. She wants to be left out of this.

Husbands not listening to what the wives want... Now that sounds like a disease.

 

[zerospeaks]

I have alcoholics in my family. Both my parents, a few uncles, and one of my uncles even died from alcoholism. Complications from cirrhosis and diabetes, to be exact. The man was an alcoholic, but died from complications from cirrhosis and diabetes (two actual diseases)

.

Anecdotal.

 

[zerospeaks]

Hey pal, YOU'RE the one adding fuel to the flames if you keep telling her what these posts say. She wants to be left out of this.

Husbands not listening to what the wives want... Now that sounds like a disease.

Oh I stopped, and she is still rambling about Scripps research proving it is a yadayada...
I regret telling her about this thread.

 

[Gate2501]

I am, myself, an alcoholic of around 10 years(still drinking 6 units/night). I have been trying to stop for the last year, and while I have been unable to do so, I have reduced the amount I consume on a nightly basis by about 50%. It is easily the most difficult thing which I have ever attempted. I spend the first 12 hours of my day telling myself that I will not drink, and then I go an do it anyhow.

I also have extreme anxiety issues, but to say that is the sole factor driving me to drink would be incorrect. I gain quite a bit of satisfaction from the buzz itself as well. When it comes down to it, I am ambivalent about it all. I fear the health consequences, but love everything else about it. My anxiety plays into my drinking, but my drinking isn't simply a symptom of my anxiety.

I am almost sure from my own experiences(correct me if I am wrong), that alcoholism is a broken survival appetite. It feels in my mind, exactly like the compulsions/cravings/urges I have to eat food or have sex. It is as if some primitive part of my brain thinks that alcohol is functional to my survival, and has subverted my higher order conscious mind into doing something against it's better judgment. I feel like arguing that it is or isn't a disease is irrelevant to the problem itself; it's semantics, and in some cases can be harmful to look at as a disease(people use it for justification), OR not a disease(people think it is a lack of character/morals/intellect).

 

[MikeSun5]

Anecdotal.

True, but I brought that up because I'm a prime candidate for a person who would believe alcoholism is a disease. I have loved ones who I don't consider "weak-willed moral degenerates." They are actually intelligent adults who know exactly what they're doing. Sad, yes. Diseased, no.

 

[littleroundman]

The US has a current population of 320+ MILLION

A generally accepted rule of thumb estimates that "alcoholics" constitute around 4% of that total, or around 12.8 MILLION people.

What would be the chances of the definition and/or cause of "alcoholism" being the same for all 12.8 MILLION people ????

While it may be convenient for society to use the all encompassing terms "alcoholic" and "alcoholism", IM(very)HO the chances of "alcoholism" being a singular condition with a singular cause are are negligible.

One has to look no further than the number of posters in this thread who have used "diabetes" to further their argument/s, without even getting into correcting the number of commonly held, but erroneous "facts" about what constitutes "diabetes" and/or its' causes.

 

[FattyCatty]

<snip>Here's an exerpt from your linky:

Notice the phrase "alcohol use disorders." I like that. Has a nice ring to it.

From the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism FIVE YEAR STRATEGIC PLAN FY09-14 niaaa.nih.gov/publications/documents/strategicplan.doc

Alcohol use disorders (AUD) is defined as alcohol abuse and alcohol dependence, and arise from drinking too much, too fast and/or too often. Alcohol Abuse is defined as a recurring pattern of high-risk drinking that creates problems for the drinker, for others, or for society. Adverse consequences can also arise from a single instance of hazardous alcohol use. Alcohol dependence, typically considered to be synonymous with alcoholism (alcohol addiction), is a complex disease characterized by persistent and intense alcohol-seeking, which results in a loss of control over drinking, a preoccupation with drinking, compulsion to drink or inability to stop, and the development of tolerance and dependence.

Straw man, much? I have alcoholics in my family. Both my parents, a few uncles, and one of my uncles even died from alcoholism. Complications from cirrhosis and diabetes, to be exact. The man was an alcoholic, but died from complications from cirrhosis and diabetes (two actual diseases).

Alcoholism is an actual disease also. It probably led to the cirrhosis (one of the possible complications of alcoholism) and the complications from the diabetes (drinking can be very dangerous for some diabetics).

<snip>I also have extreme anxiety issues, but to say that is the sole factor driving me to drink would be incorrect. I gain quite a bit of satisfaction from the buzz itself as well. When it comes down to it, I am ambivalent about it all. I fear the health consequences, but love everything else about it. My anxiety plays into my drinking, but my drinking isn't simply a symptom of my anxiety.
<snip>
I feel like arguing that it is or isn't a disease is irrelevant to the problem itself; it's semantics, and in some cases can be harmful to look at as a disease(people use it for justification), OR not a disease(people think it is a lack of character/morals/intellect).

Alcohol is quite often found in conjunction with various mental disorders, including anxiety. It is hard to treat one without treating the other. Check and see if your county has a dual diagnosis program, maybe that would help.

I think calling alcoholism a disease is more than semantics. There certainly are implications for how society views alcoholics. I would think it would also impact funding for research, treatment, etc.

The US has a current population of 320+ MILLION

A generally accepted rule of thumb estimates that "alcoholics" constitute around 4% of that total, or around 12.8 MILLION people.

What would be the chances of the definition and/or cause of "alcoholism" being the same for all 12.8 MILLION people ????

While it may be convenient for society to use the all encompassing terms "alcoholic" and "alcoholism", IM(very)HO the chances of "alcoholism" being a singular condition with a singular cause are are negligible.

According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism FIVE YEAR STRATEGIC PLAN FY09-14 linked above:

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) recently came to similar conclusions about the toll taken by excessive alcohol use. According to the CDC, excessive alcohol consumption is the number-three cause of preventable death in the United States. The WHO also ranks alcohol third among preventable risk factors for premature death in developed nations. In 2003, the worldwide prevalence of alcohol use disorders (AUD) was estimated at 1.7%, accounting for 1.4% of the total world disease burden in developed countries. In the United States, 18 million Americans (8.5% of the population age 18 and older) suffer from alcohol use disorders. Only 7.1% of these individuals received any treatment for their AUD in the past year. Problems related to the excessive consumption of alcohol cost U.S. society an estimated $185 billion annually.

One has to look no further than the number of posters in this thread who have used "diabetes" to further their argument/s, without even getting into correcting the number of commonly held, but erroneous "facts" about what constitutes "diabetes" and/or its' causes.

What facts about diabetes? Why the scare quotes?