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Marijuana and Mental Illness

Used habitually from age 17

Used daily and heavily from age 19 to the point of smoking up to and beyond an ounce a month, mostly in bongs (waterpipes).

Quit between age 21/22
 
GracefullyTalentless said:
Social awkwardness, paranoia of varying degrees, damage to both short term and long term memory, extreme irritation caused by trivial issues.

None of which were a problem before starting using the drug.

Like I said, these effects are reducing in severity, but are nevertheless there.
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You do realize that actually this could be an underlying psychological condition you have , right ? Teenage is one of the age they often come to surface. I have for example quasi identical symptom to yours. I don't do alcohol or MJ. ETA: and mine started at 16.
 
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Aepervius said:
You do realize that actually this could be an underlying psychological condition you have , right ? Teenage is one of the age they often come to surface. I have for example quasi identical symptom to yours. I don't do alcohol or MJ. ETA: and mine started at 16.
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They seem to think the lack of a family history means the cannabis did it.
 
I would say that the anecdotal "evidence" for Marijuana to mess up your head is pretty strong and definitely enough to justify financing of proper scientific studies that would confirm or deny such a link exists - which is as far as anecdotal evidence can take you in the best of times.

My personal belief is that it can (significantly?) worsen an existing condition, but it is unlikely to cause a condition in a healthy mind all by itself. That said, a perfectly healthy mind is probably all but impossible to find, as is a perfectly healthy body.
There is nothing we could call evidence to support the said belief is accurate, but the implications and anecdotes about it are far too many to ignore. This belief is a subject to change if and when evidence comes in. In this case erring on the side of caution is definitely prefferable.

McHrozni
 
Anecdotal-

I know a person who suffers from panic attacks and depression. He refuses to touch marijuana because he says that marijuana would trigger it and make it worse.

I know another person who has depression and she says that marijuana also makes it worse.

On the other hand, I know a woman who is a daily pot smoker and she says that nothing helps her depression like pot smoking. She says that it is an absolutely magical cure.


Based on what I've seen (which isn't much), my personal observation is that marijuana makes a good deal of the people who use it obnoxious, lazy, weird, loud and pretty stupid. It turns a lot of people into, frankly, dumb bums, whether they are sober or high (though there is an argument to be made that the type of people to use it are already bums to begin with and that this is confusing cause with effect). And it makes people who already have mental problems exhibit them more strongly- sometimes.
 
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EeneyMinnieMoe said:
Anecdotal-

I know a person who suffers from panic attacks and depression. He refuses to touch marijuana because he says that marijuana would trigger it and make it worse.

I know another person who has depression and she says that marijuana also makes it worse.

On the other hand, I know a woman who is a daily pot smoker and she says that nothing helps her depression like pot smoking. She says that it is an absolutely magical cure.


Based on what I've seen (which isn't much), my personal observation is that marijuana makes a good deal of the people who use it obnoxious, lazy, weird, loud and pretty stupid. It turns a lot of people into, frankly, dumb bums, whether they are sober or high (though there is an argument to be made that the type of people to use it are already bums to begin with and this is confusing cause with effect). And it makes people who already have mental problems exhibit them more strongly- sometimes.
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It does seem we notice people who use marijuana and are overtly obnoxious, lazy, weird, etc. But the people who use marijuana and hold steady jobs, work hard, appear articulate and intelligent, etc., obviously aren't the ones who stand out. All the anecdotes are fine, but since they tend to not take into account those people who use pot and don't get noticed, they are hardly supportive of a causation.

As for anecdotes from the other angle: I've known people who smoke regularly who are lawyers and engineers and librarians and school teachers, appliance salesmen and small business owners, full grown adults who are parents, PTA members, have hobbies, are good responsible neighbors, contribute to their communities, and who you would never know are marijuana users if you didn't actually see them smoking it.
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
Based on what I've seen (which isn't much), my personal observation is that marijuana makes a good deal of the people who use it obnoxious, lazy, weird, loud and pretty stupid. It turns a lot of people into, frankly, dumb bums, whether they are sober or high (though there is an argument to be made that the type of people to use it are already bums to begin with and that this is confusing cause with effect). And it makes people who already have mental problems exhibit them more strongly- sometimes.
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I would argue that the same could probably be said of alcohol too. How many homeless people drank themselves into that predicament and/or have mental health problems that may or may not be related to their substance abuse? Unfortunately various drugs tend to have detrimental effects on various individuals, whether due to genetic predispositions, or mental health predispositions. I think my biggest aversion to legalizing all drugs is the fact that people just love to drive while under the influence, and not everyone knows their limits.
 
The_Animus said:
Finally in case you haven't noticed the war on drugs doesn't work. It wastes billions of taxpayer dollars, diverts police from where they are actually needed, funds organized crime rather than funding government, fills up jails, prevents people from contributing to society, and in general is just incredibly stupid. We have 100+ years of experience knowing it doesn't work but we keep pretending if we just try a little harder or spend more money on it it will magically work.
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In terms of the MJ issue in general we seem to have little to quibble about, however:

I guess the problem I have with outright legalization of all drugs is the fact the over 50,000 people a year die in this country as a result of drunk driving. Legalizing more drugs (yes, I would say alcohol is a drug) would IMO only complicate things, and would likely lead to more deaths on the road. How do you define "over the limit" when people start "mixing and matching"?

I also question whether or not the "war on drugs" works or not when I see countries like Mexico today. It may not "work" here in the US in quite the way we planned, but there is a "social" structure aspect that seems to factor into this process. Mexico (and other countries ) have turned a blind eye to drugs only to find the level of violence simply goes off scale and a full "war on the streets" occurs. Do you really think Mexico would benefit by "legalizing" drugs?
 
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Halfcentaur said:
They seem to think the lack of a family history means the cannabis did it.
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Or the fact that when I used to smoke it, i'd often get panicky in social situations ranging from walking round town to being in the pub with friends, in which i'd otherwise not have any issue. The onset of these symptoms corresponded exactly to the periods when I used weed.

These increased in frequency as my usage of weed became heavier, until it got to the point where it didn't matter whether or not I smoked it, i'd be panicky practically all the time in such situations.

Since quitting, this panicky feeling has subsided greatly to the point where it's not a problem or even noticable.

But I guess my lack of anything other than anecdotal evidence means that some of you know my body and mind better than me, right?

What I meant when I said:

"This is one of the few subjects that I don't care what evidence exists."

is that whatever evidence does exist, from either camp, seems to be laden with confirmation bias to the point where it is preferable for me to trust my own experience with the drug.

I don't doubt that what Aepervius said about my having an underlying psychological condition could be true, though if it is then it is either now in a state of almost complete remission or i've been cured without counselling, drugs or a single visit to a GP.

I'm not saying "PUT DOWN YOUR BONGS PEOPLE, YOU'RE ALL GOING TO GO CRAZY!", I am quite aware that my physiome will have as much to do with how the drug interacts with my mind as the drug itself. But i'm also aware that regardless of how much of an individual i'd like to consider myself, i'm just not that special, and other people are likely to experience the same or similar effects to me.
 
GracefullyTalentless said:
This is one of the few subjects that I don't care what evidence exists.

I was a long-term, heavy user of marijuana. There is no history of mental illness in my family. Nearly 4 years on from quitting and i'm still feeling the effects, but in the last two i've started to overcome them.

Cannabis does damage. First hand experience.


ETA: That being said, if we purport to living in free societies we should have the choice of whether or not we put such things into our bodies.
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As someone living with depression and addiction, mj was a two edged sword. It was not my primary addiction, but man I sure was high a lot. I could take it or leave it and often did, without any real change in functioning. But then I began to notice a 'hangover' that would last for about two weeks, where I was slow, lethargic and more irritable, so I stopped using.
 
Aepervius said:
You do realize that actually this could be an underlying psychological condition you have , right ? Teenage is one of the age they often come to surface. I have for example quasi identical symptom to yours. I don't do alcohol or MJ. ETA: and mine started at 16.
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I had childhood depression, always anxious, depression started around 12 or 13, mj use around 16, began seotonergic hallucinogens around 19, which caused me to go from take or leave it use of mj to take it as much as possible. Lost seven years, took a while to realize that I could take or leave the mj after no longer using serotonergic agents.
 
McHrozni said:
I would say that the anecdotal "evidence" for Marijuana to mess up your head is pretty strong and definitely enough to justify financing of proper scientific studies that would confirm or deny such a link exists - which is as far as anecdotal evidence can take you in the best of times.
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Good demographic matching studies show one consistent factor, memory loss that in some people can take an extended period to recover from, other than that there are those who have panic attacks. But most of those studies show no effect after three years of no use.
My personal belief is that it can (significantly?) worsen an existing condition, but it is unlikely to cause a condition in a healthy mind all by itself.
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That is the belief in the metal health community, use aggravates preexisting conditions and causes new symptoms in some people, but mj is no where near as bad as cocaine.
That said, a perfectly healthy mind is probably all but impossible to find, as is a perfectly healthy body.
There is nothing we could call evidence to support the said belief is accurate, but the implications and anecdotes about it are far too many to ignore.
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Really there are some fairly good studies with demographic matching, decent but not great sample sizes,, the problem is the lack of random assignment, so there are self selection and probanding issues as well.
This belief is a subject to change if and when evidence comes in. In this case erring on the side of caution is definitely prefferable.

McHrozni
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I am positive that chronic heavy alcohol use is far worse.
 
Michael Mozina said:
<snip>

I also question whether or not the "war on drugs" works or not when I see countries like Mexico today. It may not "work" here in the US in quite the way we planned, but there is a "social" structure aspect that seems to factor into this process. Mexico (and other countries ) have turned a blind eye to drugs only to find the level of violence simply goes off scale and a full "war on the streets" occurs. Do you really think Mexico would benefit by "legalizing" drugs?
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I think Mexico would probably benefit dramatically as a result of the U.S. legalizing drugs.
 
ThunderChunky said:
I laugh at people presenting anecdotes as legitimate evidence on a skeptics board.

The science linking cannabis use to schizophrenia is nothing new (ruling out the "new pot is worse" argument and is also overstated: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2009.02846.x/abstract

You know what else is a risk factor for schizophrenia? Living in a city.
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LOL! My town has a population of about 3,000. Even going back into San Diego to see my dad makes me a little paranoid, particularly while driving. :)
 
Michael Mozina said:
Or would that bring that same violence inside our borders? It seems to me that there is a power/money thing here that defies a "simple" solution.
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You seem to be saying Mexico has a problem with violence and crime because it turns a blind eye to drugs, and this same violence and crime would come to America (more so than it already has) if we were to lighten up on our own enforcement of prohibition.

I would think the crime in Mexico comes from a direct result of the black market our prohibition creates a demand for. If marijuana was legal here, people would no longer be dealing with criminal elements, they would not need to.

This is what funds the crime and violence in Mexico. If Americans were no longer funding the cartels in Mexico, and buying their products in coffee shops, or pharmacies, or growing it themselves, why would there be an increase in crime at all?

You think the effects of the substance are driving these people to commit criminal acts?

I just don't understand how this fear and prohibition has been going on for so long while beer and liquor gets a free pass. Like I said earlier, maybe it has to do with xenophobia. Alcohol seems domestic to the average American, and other inebriating substances have an exotic strangeness to them, I suppose.

Whenever I spend time in Amsterdam or other "free minded" countries, it all seems so obviously insane. It's really tragic we even have to have this sort of debate in the first place.
 
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