Merged Obama enters GZ Mosque debate

[Cicero]

Speaking of which, and back on topic:

Another liberal not sporting the Hai Karate odor.


Civil libertarians should not dismiss opponents of mosques as bigots

"As a matter of national security, the United States has no practical way to distinguish between the majority of peace-loving Muslims and the minority who see it as their god-given mission to kill "the enemy." Nor do we have the resources, quite frankly, to spend a lot more time trying to distinguish between them. Given that we are funding two major anti-terrorism wars and driving ourselves to bankruptcy in the process, I believe people who fear the establishment of mosques in their neighborhoods have valid concerns that civil libertarians are ignoring. I am not saying in any way, shape or form that I would join their protest marches. But I think to dismiss them as a bunch of misguided bigots is an act we could easily live to regret."
BONNIE ERBE, Scripps Howard News Service

http://www.scrippsnews.com/content/...s-should-not-dismiss-opponents-mosques-bigots

 

[Neally]

They believe that low taxes will still allow the government to function and perform its normal services and still reduce the deficit. They are dimwits. Dimwits tolerate and often agree with bigots.

Let's see if I follow the logic correctly, "They believe" meaning you knowing what every single person at the TP believes, and they all believe the same thing. Kind of like all Mexicans are lazy?

"Dimwits tolerate and often agree with bigots" therefore everyone that doesn't agree with your political/economic opinion is a bigot.

I also believe that the ardent defense of bigotry is a sign of bigotry.

Since you clearly defend your own bigotry yet refuse to accept or acknowledge it, you are describing yourself.

They take no special steps to see that bigots do not infiltrate their demonstrations and disrupt or discredit them. It is not bigotry to call someone a bigot who welcomes bigots into his mob.

They are supposed to hand out a tolerance questionnaire and do background checks before someone is allowed to attend a rally? And since they don't do that, it is welcoming the bigots? I have to admit, even I'm surprised by the twisted partisan logic you have come up with to rationalize your hate.

 

[A'isha]

Another liberal not sporting the Hai Karate odor.

"Ms. Erbé is non partisan and toes no party line. She is not an affiliated Democrat or Republican, nor is she uniformly progressive or conservative."

"As a matter of national security, the United States has no practical way to distinguish between the majority of peace-loving Muslims and the minority who see it as their god-given mission to kill "the enemy."

This statement is mind-bogglingly idiotic.

And then as proof of how terribly violent the Qu'ran is, she cites a statement from faithfacts.org. And who are they?

Well, let's see what they say about themselves:

What We Believe – Our Statement of Faith

We believe in the essential truths of the historic orthodox (biblical) Christian faith. These truths include:

* We believe that all men are sinners and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).
* We believe that salvation from sin, death, and God's wrath is the comforting free gift of God, given by grace through a living faith (Ephesians 2:8-9, James 2:14-17) in Jesus Christ (John 14:6).
* We believe that the Bible is the final authority on faith and life—that it is a magnificent and unique document, truly inspired by God through human writers, and is without error in the original manuscripts (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
* We believe that the Bible has answers for today's problems—that every man, woman, or child will benefit by getting to know Christ (Hebrews 13:8).
* We believe that good works are a natural result of an authentic saving faith (2 Corinthians 9:8, James 2:26). Thus being a Christian leads one to be a blessing to society (Mark 12:31), to influence it (Matthew 5:13-16), to be enthusiastic (Romans 12:11), and to bring others the good news of the gospel (Matthew 28:19-20).
* We believe that the Christian faith is not mere blind faith but faith in evidence (Acts 1:3), which should be explained lovingly to others (1 Peter 3:15).

Note: This is an abbreviated list of essential Bible truths. For more detail see our article Christian Cram Course.

Faith Facts is a Bible-based, para-church ministry not affiliated with any denomination. Our mission is to further the gospel, that more may find a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the blessings of Christian living.

I'm sure they have a totally unbiased view of Islam and the Qu'ran and have no interest whatsoever in painting that religion and its holy book in the worst light possible by repeating completely false claims like "(incitements to violence) in the Bible are each a particular limited circumstance in time, for a particular purpose established by God. But in the Quran, we encounter general commands to kill and destroy the enemies of Islam that are applicable for all times and places and people groups" in an attempt to promote their view of Christianity and the Bible.

Yup.

EDIT: Her above bio also says "Ms. Erbé is working on a novel about religious symbolism in Washington, D.C."

That only seems appropriate, since everything she's said and cited about Islam in that opinion piece is already pure fiction.

 

[Cicero]

"Ms. Erbé is non partisan and toes no party line. She is not an affiliated Democrat or Republican, nor is she uniformly progressive or conservative."

And NPR's liberal Diane Rehm claims you wouldn't know what her political agenda is or what her point of view might be from listening to her show. Of course this is absurd as Erbé claiming her liberal ideology isn't leaking out all over her show and columns.

 

[A'isha]

And NPR's liberal Diane Rehm claims you wouldn't know what her political agenda is or what her point of view might be from listening to her show. Of course this is absurd as Erbé claiming her liberal ideology isn't leaking out all over her show and columns.

Yes, because that was the important part of my post.

 

[DC]

Another liberal not sporting the Hai Karate odor.


Civil libertarians should not dismiss opponents of mosques as bigots

"As a matter of national security, the United States has no practical way to distinguish between the majority of peace-loving Muslims and the minority who see it as their god-given mission to kill "the enemy." Nor do we have the resources, quite frankly, to spend a lot more time trying to distinguish between them. Given that we are funding two major anti-terrorism wars and driving ourselves to bankruptcy in the process, I believe people who fear the establishment of mosques in their neighborhoods have valid concerns that civil libertarians are ignoring. I am not saying in any way, shape or form that I would join their protest marches. But I think to dismiss them as a bunch of misguided bigots is an act we could easily live to regret."
BONNIE ERBE, Scripps Howard News Service

http://www.scrippsnews.com/content/...s-should-not-dismiss-opponents-mosques-bigots

what gibberish

we don't have the resource to know who is a non pedophile priest and who is a pedophile priest, so we best close all churches.....

 

[Cicero]

Yes, because that was the important part of my post.

You take for granted that the self-aggrandizing blurb on Erbé's "To the Contrary" website proves she isn't a partisan, yet you are skeptical of the information posted on faithfacts.org? I think your skepticism connection has a short in it.

 

[A'isha]

You take for granted that the self-aggrandizing blurb on Erbé's "To the Contrary" website proves she isn't a partisan, yet you are skeptical of the information posted on faithfacts.org? I think your skepticism connection has a short in it.

You really seem determined to pursue this irrelevancy while completely ignoring the actual substance of my post.

Why is that, Cicero?

 

[leftysergeant]

Let's see if I follow the logic correctly, "They believe" meaning you knowing what every single person at the TP believes, and they all believe the same thing. Kind of like all Mexicans are lazy?

They are associated to push a political aggenda that is grounded in superstition. They tolerate bigots to walk among them to inflate their numbers. They bear some shame for allowing bigots to use therm as a launching platform.

The arguments you are presenting would seem to me to support a theory that, if I call Nazi Brown Shirts who broke up union meetings slimeballs, I am somehow a bigot.

It is not bigotry to call dangerous people dangerous or unruly or wierd.

They chose to step into that cess pool. Not my problem if people say they stink.

 

[leftysergeant]

And then as proof of how terribly violent the Qu'ran is, she cites a statement from faithfacts.org. And who are they?

And I now have no reason ever to accept anything that faithfacts.org posts as fact without a lot of research.

I'm sure they have a totally unbiased view of Islam and the Qu'ran and have no interest whatsoever in painting that religion and its holy book in the worst light possible by repeating completely false claims like "(incitements to violence) in the Bible are each a particular limited circumstance in time, for a particular purpose established by God. But in the Quran, we encounter general commands to kill and destroy the enemies of Islam that are applicable for all times and places and people groups" in an attempt to promote their view of Christianity and the Bible.

They forgot to take off their parochial goggles when thery read the Qur'an. They may now go sit in the corner with the pointy paper cap on their heads.

 

[johnny karate]

Another liberal not sporting the Hai Karate odor.


Civil libertarians should not dismiss opponents of mosques as bigots

"As a matter of national security, the United States has no practical way to distinguish between the majority of peace-loving Muslims and the minority who see it as their god-given mission to kill "the enemy." Nor do we have the resources, quite frankly, to spend a lot more time trying to distinguish between them. Given that we are funding two major anti-terrorism wars and driving ourselves to bankruptcy in the process, I believe people who fear the establishment of mosques in their neighborhoods have valid concerns that civil libertarians are ignoring. I am not saying in any way, shape or form that I would join their protest marches. But I think to dismiss them as a bunch of misguided bigots is an act we could easily live to regret."
BONNIE ERBE, Scripps Howard News Service

http://www.scrippsnews.com/content/...s-should-not-dismiss-opponents-mosques-bigots

So?

I find it very telling that you lack the moral and intellectual courage to actually make your own argument on this topic, but instead resort to the Truther method of argumentation via link dump.

 

[Taarkin]

Civil libertarians should not dismiss opponents of mosques as bigots
"As a matter of national security, the United States has no practical way to distinguish between the majority of peace-loving Muslims and the minority who see it as their god-given mission to kill "the enemy."

We shouldn't dismiss Park51 opponents as bigots because all Muslims are indistinguishable from one another.

 

[Chaos]

We shouldn't dismiss Park51 opponents as bigots because all Muslims are indistinguishable from one another.

Indeed. "We are too scared and too ignorant to be able to tell the difference between guilt and innocence, so we must punish them all."

 

[Cicero]

And I now have no reason ever to accept anything that faithfacts.org posts as fact without a lot of research.

Now all you need to do is apply the same standard to MoveOn.org, Media Matters, DailyKos, Mother Jones, and you will have made great progress.

 

[Cicero]

You really seem determined to pursue this irrelevancy while completely ignoring the actual substance of my post.

Why is that, Cicero?

Perhaps you should have concentrated on faithfacts.org and eliminated the first part of your post which undermined the point you wanted to make.

 

[Cicero]

So?

I find it very telling that you lack the moral and intellectual courage to actually make your own argument on this topic, but instead resort to the Truther method of argumentation via link dump.

Labeling people "bigots" who will not be coerced by your callow opinions demonstrates your lack of character. It is those like yourself who employ the Truther trick bag of argument of lack of evidence is evidence in itself.

Here is some more "link dump" for your disapproval
.

"Two-thirds of New York City residents want a planned Muslim community center and mosque to be relocated to a less controversial site farther away from ground zero in Lower Manhattan, including many who describe themselves as supporters of the project, according to a New York Times poll."

"The center’s developers, and its defenders, have sought to portray opponents as a small but vocal group.

The poll, however, reveals a more complicated portrait of the opposition in New York: 67 percent said that while Muslims had a right to construct the center near ground zero, they should find a different site.

Most strikingly, 38 percent of those who expressed support for the plan to build it in Lower Manhattan said later in a follow-up question that they would prefer it be moved farther away, suggesting that even those who defend the plan question the wisdom of the location."

Just like the POTUS. He must be one of those raging "bigots" as well.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/nyregion/03poll.html

 

[A'isha]

Perhaps you should have concentrated on faithfacts.org and eliminated the first part of your post which undermined the point you wanted to make.

Please explain to me how you claiming that your Super Special Spidey Liberal Sense allows you to know the Truth that Erbé is really a Seekrit Librul (despite her explicitly stating otherwise and supporting political positions usually considered antithetical to "liberals") "undermined" the point I wanted to make?

 

[A'isha]

Most strikingly, 38 percent of those who expressed support for the plan to build it in Lower Manhattan said later in a follow-up question that they would prefer it be moved farther away, suggesting that even those who defend the plan question the wisdom of the location." [/B]

Just like the POTUS. He must be one of those raging "bigots" as well.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/nyregion/03poll.html

And? Why do they question it? Can you tell us (in your own words this time, Cicero) what, exactly, is so offensive about Park51 that these people don't want it located so close to Ground Zero? What is it, specifically, about Park51 that gets people's ire up, in a way that churches and bars and even strip clubs being as close (or closer) to Ground Zero doesn't?

 

[Cicero]

Please explain to me how you claiming that your Super Special Spidey Liberal Sense allows you to know the Truth that Erbé is really a Seekrit Librul (despite her explicitly stating otherwise and supporting political positions usually considered antithetical to "liberals") "undermined" the point I wanted to make?

You don't have to be Peter Parker to get a sense that Bonnie is indeed a liberal, which would be pointless to deny on her website. Perhaps that is why she says she is neither a Democrat/Republican, progressive/conservative. Since when are pro abortion, more gun control, and railing against churches not the hallmarks of the left's political positions?


Supreme Court Gun Decision Shows Democrats Have Surrendered on Issue

"The Supreme Court's decision, taking away important local rights to control gun ownership, marks another sad day in America's now seemingly endless political appetite for increasing the number of privately owned guns in this country."

http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/...ion-Shows-Democrats-Have-Surrendered-on-Issue

In a Recession, Abortions Are Not a Bad Choice

http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/...recession-abortions-are-not-a-bad-choice.html

"What is the religious right doing by campaigning against abortion? First and foremost, its efforts seem aimed at trying to keep church pews filled by bringing more and more poor people into the world. Second, it will just end up boosting the teen unwed pregnancy rate every time it guilt trips an unwed, pregnant teen into bringing to term a child she does not want and cannot afford to raise. Third, it will effectively subjugate women and girls in the same way women and girls in developing nations are consigned to a life of child-bearing and little else."

http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/...wlenty-offensive-abortion-recovery-month.html

 

[Cicero]

And? Why do they question it? Can you tell us (in your own words this time, Cicero) what, exactly, is so offensive about Park51 that these people don't want it located so close to Ground Zero? What is it, specifically, about Park51 that gets people's ire up, in a way that churches and bars and even strip clubs being as close (or closer) to Ground Zero doesn't?

Were you aching for POTUS Obama to tell you in his own words why he questioned the wisdom of the mosque location? He also did not question the wisdom of pubs and/or eager beaver clubs in the same location.