German banker sacked for comments about Jews

[Chaos]

Honestly from my position here in Berlin, the whole Jews argument doesn't get as much publicity here as other statements made by Mr. Sarrazin. He made some very controversial statements about immigrants, mostly about the Muslim immigrants. He implies an evil conspiracy to undermine the German culture and establish a Muslim country.

And while there were comments to the whole Jews and genes nonsense they all seem to be univerially clears about this being BS.

He is a director of the Federal Bank, so not just any banker, and so far he hasn't been fired, but a decision is expected today. His party the Social Democrates are trying to get him out of the party, too. So far in both cases the argumentation was that his theories are too controversial, his tone inappropiate and as a representative of the FRG he should have excised more diplomacy. A big problem is also that all those racists and Neo-Nazis are now openly applauding him, and that's what no one likes to see.

He used to be in the local Berlin government and there made almost the same comments but not just about immigrants but also about welfare recipiants. When he changed to the Federal bank last year, it was kind of strange because many saw this kind of thing that happens now as inevidently.

While I think that there are some problems with integration of immigrants, I find his comments highly inappropriate.

Sarrazin is one of the board members of the Bundesbank, the German Central Bank.

Beyond what you mentioned, he also claimed that Muslim immigrants are genetically inferior to Germans, specifically less intelligent, that they present a danger to Germany by "outbreeding" German, and that Muslim women don´t do anything besides bringing more headscarf-wearing girls into the world.

He also ranted quite a bit about the stupid, lazy and useless lower classes, who also have too many children as far as he is concerned, whereas academics and other "achievers" have too few.

Besides all this racist stuff, the main damage he does is making it impossible to adress the real shortcomings in the immigration process, because, after all, who would want to be associated with an idiot like this?

 

[Lamafarmer]

he also claimed that Muslim immigrants are genetically inferior to Germans, specifically less intelligent [...] and that Muslim women don´t do anything besides bringing more headscarf-wearing girls into the world.

He also ranted quite a bit about the stupid, lazy and useless lower classes, who also have too many children as far as he is concerned, whereas academics and other "achievers" have too few.

Sources for claims please, Danke. Are you actually arguing on the basis of his book, or merely what you read in the newspapers?

the main damage he does is making it impossible to adress the real shortcomings in the immigration process, because, after all, who would want to be associated with an idiot like this?

Nonsense and an idiotic argument.

 

[DreadNiK]

I dunno, I thought it was pretty straight forward myself; ie. an Orthodox convert is more "Jewish" than a non-Orthodox convert. I don't know how you can read it any other way.

Are there 3 different possibilities then?

Converting 'through the Orthodox' (whatever that means, presumably converting via a certain denomination of Judaism? [I assume they have denominations or the equivalent])

Converting 'not through the Orthodox'

and

Not 'converting' at all

?

It still seems unlikely he is suggesting they actually acquire a new gene via one of these methods, but might be suggesting that those who convert but not 'through the Orthodox' are not Jewish, but surely that is very different from suggesting there is an actual genetic difference...

 

[bit_pattern]

Are there 3 different possibilities then?

Converting 'through the Orthodox' (whatever that means, presumably converting via a certain denomination of Judaism? [I assume they have denominations or the equivalent])

Converting 'not through the Orthodox'

and

Not 'converting' at all

?

It still seems unlikely he is suggesting they actually acquire a new gene via one of these methods, but might be suggesting that those who convert but not 'through the Orthodox' are not Jewish, but surely that is very different from suggesting there is an actual genetic difference...

That seems to me exactly what he is saying (considering he is a Shah, who are an ultra-Orthodox faction, it probably complies with his religious beliefs) and, no, I for one never thought that he meant it in a literal sense, because even a deeply religious politician couldn't be THAT stupid, surely (well, unless they have serious issues with evolution which, to their credit, most Jews do not - unlike SOME religions I can think of )

Maybe Skeptic begs to differ, hopefully he can explain to us both what his interpretation of what the good Mr. Yishai really meant

PS - I had a look at that Wiki page, Yishai is adamantly against asylum seekers who allegedly carry diseases, so I think his prejudice when it comes to matters of immigration are pretty clear.

 

[Thunder]

I'd rather make sure he said that in the first place, which I am pretty sure he didn't.

its in the quote, mein herr.

 

[Lamafarmer]

Where do I find this quote? Sure you don't mean this quote?

Now read the following pearl: "A convert, if he converts through the Orthodox, he has the Jewish gene. If he doesn't convert through the Orthodox, he doesn't have the Jewish gene. As simple as that." This quote is taken from an interview the interior minister of the Jewish State and the Shas party leader, Eli Yishai

 

[Skeptic]

He also ranted quite a bit about the stupid, lazy and useless lower classes, who also have too many children as far as he is concerned, whereas academics and other "achievers" have too few.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here it seems not so much racism here as social snobism: the belief that nothing except a government (taxpayer-funded) job for academics is real work, while all this other stuff (like, you know, actually making or growing or producing things) is extraneous frill.

 

[Skeptic]

It still seems unlikely he is suggesting they actually acquire a new gene via one of these methods, but might be suggesting that those who convert but not 'through the Orthodox' are not Jewish,

Exactly. There's a big fight in Israel about what sort of conversion makes one a Jew. Yishai, an Orthodox Jew, naturally argues that only "his" sort of conversion counts. Whatever one thinks about that, however, it has nothing to do with actual genes -- he was using a figure of speech here.

 

[Chaos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here it seems not so much racism here as social snobism: the belief that nothing except a government (taxpayer-funded) job for academics is real work, while all this other stuff (like, you know, actually making or growing or producing things) is extraneous frill.

No. This is good old conservative hate-those-people-who-can´t-find-a-job-in-this-economy syndrome.

And he is also a racist, with all that blathering about Turks and Arabs who are too dumb and have too many children.

 

[DreadNiK]

That seems to me exactly what he is saying (considering he is a Shah, who are an ultra-Orthodox faction, it probably complies with his religious beliefs) and, no, I for one never thought that he meant it in a literal sense, because even a deeply religious politician couldn't be THAT stupid, surely (well, unless they have serious issues with evolution which, to their credit, most Jews do not - unlike SOME religions I can think of )

Maybe Skeptic begs to differ, hopefully he can explain to us both what his interpretation of what the good Mr. Yishai really meant

PS - I had a look at that Wiki page, Yishai is adamantly against asylum seekers who allegedly carry diseases, so I think his prejudice when it comes to matters of immigration are pretty clear.

So you don't find it disingenuous when in discussion of actual genetics to quote out of context a prominent jewish politician talking about genes most likely, and admittedly in your view, as a metaphor, as a way of suggesting some sort of double standard or hypocrisy?

PS: I posted the wiki article and its change history to point out how coincidentally that same quote has been added to his wiki page in the last few days, and is marked as [citation needed] when the actual quote is nearly a month old.

 

[DreadNiK]

Exactly. There's a big fight in Israel about what sort of conversion makes one a Jew. Yishai, an Orthodox Jew, naturally argues that only "his" sort of conversion counts. Whatever one thinks about that, however, it has nothing to do with actual genes -- he was using a figure of speech here.

I dunno, don't Catholics genuinely believe in transubstantiation? Acquiring genes through Orthodox conversion seems no less nutty

 

[Thunder]

anyone who thinks that you acquire new genetic material, when you convert to Judaism under Orthodox rules, should be put in a straight-jacket.

btw, this is also the same scumbag who called for genocide against the Palestinians.

Israelis do have interesting spiritual leaders.

 

[ddt]

No. This is good old conservative hate-those-people-who-can´t-find-a-job-in-this-economy syndrome.

And he is also a racist, with all that blathering about Turks and Arabs who are too dumb and have too many children.

Why the hell did he enlist as a member of the social-democrat party? Is he dyslexic and can't see the difference between an "S" and an "N"?

SPD = social democrats
NPD = "nationalist" party

 

[bit_pattern]

So you don't find it disingenuous when in discussion of actual genetics to quote out of context a prominent jewish politician talking about genes most likely, and admittedly in your view, as a metaphor, as a way of suggesting some sort of double standard or hypocrisy?

PS: I posted the wiki article and its change history to point out how coincidentally that same quote has been added to his wiki page in the last few days, and is marked as [citation needed] when the actual quote is nearly a month old.

I posted it to put Thunders JPost comment into context, that is all, then Skepic and you ran with it

/shrugz

 

[funk de fino]

He sounds like a bit of a dick.

 

[Chaos]

Why the hell did he enlist as a member of the social-democrat party? Is he dyslexic and can't see the difference between an "S" and an "N"?

SPD = social democrats
NPD = "nationalist" party

I would venture a guess that it was because the Neo-Nazis don´t get offered all those cozy, well-paid posts. Although, with his views, he would have been more welcome in the conservative party; bashing foreigners is their favorite way of distracting others from their own failures.

 

[DC]

anyone who thinks that you acquire new genetic material, when you convert to Judaism under Orthodox rules, should be put in a straight-jacket.

btw, this is also the same scumbag who called for genocide against the Palestinians.

Israelis do have interesting spiritual leaders.

woot? who claimed that? not even the sacked scumbag claimed such weird stuff.

 

[DreadNiK]

I posted it to put Thunders JPost comment into context, that is all, then Skepic and you ran with it

/shrugz

Still doesn't answer my question

 

[Skeptic]

He sounds like a bit of a dick.

Which one -- the German banker or the Israeli minister? By the way, many people think Yishai is a bit of a dick, for example due to his stand about conversions, but that's not the same thing as actually thinking he thinks people magically get genes that way...

 

[Skeptic]

And he is also a racist, with all that blathering about Turks and Arabs who are too dumb and have too many children.

Didn't mean to imply he isn't, just was talking about that particular comment.