German banker sacked for comments about Jews

[Chaos]

Didn't mean to imply he isn't, just was talking about that particular comment.

Funny how you didn´t quite the rest of what I posted. Should I see that as an admission that you were wrong posting a reflexive "must be an evil insane cluesless leftist progressive", or are you going to provide evidence for your claims.

 

[Elind]

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...es-in-germany-go-unnoticed-in-israel-1.311182

Now read the following pearl: "A convert, if he converts through the Orthodox, he has the Jewish gene. If he doesn't convert through the Orthodox, he doesn't have the Jewish gene. As simple as that." This quote is taken from an interview the interior minister of the Jewish State and the Shas party leader, Eli Yishai, gave to the editor of The Jerusalem Post, David Horovitz (August 8, 2010 ).

I think most reasonable people would take this comment as meaning that the genes don't matter, only the faith.

 

[Thunder]

I think most reasonable people would take this comment as meaning that the genes don't matter, only the faith.

and that this Rabbi is a **** ing moron.

 

[Skeptic]

I think most reasonable people would take this comment as meaning that the genes don't matter, only the faith.

It's Jews -- and (oh horror) Orthodox Jews we're speaking about. Reading for comprehension is out. Reading for finding something to blame them for is in.

I'm not surprised Ha'aretz tried to make a big deal of it, were laughed at, and dropped the issue. Shows you how accurate it is in most of its other reporting. It is well-known for having gross bias against anybody to the left of, more or less, Peace Now.

This is the same paper Israeli-haters abroad love to quote, as "proof" that "The Israelies themselves say...". True that they're Israelies, but the "look how evil we are", though popular in certain Israeli circles, is more or less limited to devout Ha'aretz readers, in other words to those impervious to reality. Its circulation is about 70,000 (about 1 in 100 Israelies reads it, in other words) and, among newspaper readers, the circulation is dropping.

Naturally Ha'aretz claims that "it is influential beyond what it's limited readerships tend to suggest" and touts how much more educated, rich, etc., the readership of "The paper for People who Think" is. Like Spinal Tap, or Newsweek, they're going for a "more discriminating audience".

 

[Puppycow]

This is the same paper Israeli-haters abroad love to quote, as "proof" that "The Israelies themselves say...". True that they're Israelies, but the "look how evil we are", though popular in certain Israeli circles, is more or less limited to devout Ha'aretz readers, in other words to those impervious to reality. Its circulation is about 70,000 (about 1 in 100 Israelies reads it, in other words) and, among newspaper readers, the circulation is dropping.

[pedant]It's Israelis, not Israelies[/pedant]

 

[Eddie Dane]

I've followed the discussion surrounding the guy's book release on TV.

I'm not sure his remarks are necessarily racist, but will appeal to the anti-immigrant crowd.

My impression was that the guy is an economist who sees the world primarily through economic glasses. He looked up the economic and educational performance of immigrants in Germany and concluded that they do not add enough to the economy.
He specifically says that the immigrants that leave Turkey are not of the highest quality in educational terms. This is because they come from the poor and rural parts of the country.
He also looked at the demographic numbers and concluded that at this rate immigration from developing countries will erode Germany's competing position and culture of high-quality engineering.

I'm not saying that I agree with his views, but there is a difference between declaring a people inferior and the above. That difference may be quite subtle, but it is there.

Germany having a terrible past regarding racism an persecution, the public reaction may have been a bit over the top. (And made his book a bestseller).

 

[Mycroft]

Maybe in Bizzro world that you seem to occupy!

And, if Iceland had a history of mass emigration, where the issue of genes and religion were paramount in making the decision who could and couldn't come to the country, and if the immigration Minister was declaring that there are two immigration papers and only one of which give you Icelandic genes then you MIGHT have a point, but even then it would be stretching it to the point of absurdity.

The logic is the same even if you claim the circumstances are different.

 

[Mycroft]

The German banker said that when someone converts to Judaism under Orthodox rules, they somehow acquire the "Jewish gene".

I'd like to see a scientific explenation for this one.

Do you believe the man was claiming, in a literal sense, that conversion to Orthodox Judaism really changes your genes?

That doesn't seem like a reasonable interpretation to me.

and for that matter, all this damn Jewish genetic research, searching for the "pure" Jews, is disgusting and needs to stop.

Can you point out some of this "Jewish research" to us?

what will the result of all this be? will Israel start doing genetic tests to see if you have the Levite or Cohan haplotype..so decide if you can make aliyah?

if I don't have this gene, am I not a truly Levite? not a true Jew?

dusgusting.

Can you show some evidence that Israel is or ever would consider making a genetic test a part of its immigration policy?

 

[Mycroft]

I dunno, I thought it was pretty straight forward myself; ie. an Orthodox convert is more "Jewish" than a non-Orthodox convert. I don't know how you can read it any other way.

Which would be about as racist as claiming a Baptist convert is more "Christian" than a Unitarian convert.

 

[funk de fino]

Which one -- the German banker or the Israeli minister? By the way, many people think Yishai is a bit of a dick, for example due to his stand about conversions, but that's not the same thing as actually thinking he thinks people magically get genes that way...

I know you are not used to it but I was looking at the thread topic. Try it sometime.

 

[Thunder]

Which would be about as racist as claiming a Baptist convert is more "Christian" than a Unitarian convert.

non-Orthodox converts to Judaism cannot get married or get buried in Israel.

the situation is a weeeee bit different.

 

[Thunder]

Can you point out some of this "Jewish research" to us?

why? you seem to be the only soul on JREF who is unfamiliar with it.

again, Google & Yahoo are your friend.

 

[Mycroft]

why? you seem to be the only soul on JREF who is unfamiliar with it.

again, Google & Yahoo are your friend.

Why? Because I think you're full of bull-pucks and am challenging you on it. There are certainly geneticists studying the human genome who have identified markers associated with Jewish populations, but there are not "Jewish scientists" searching for "pure Jews". You made that up.


You made an assertion, now back it up.

 

[Mycroft]

non-Orthodox converts to Judaism cannot get married or get buried in Israel.

the situation is a weeeee bit different.

You're full of bull-pucks on the burial issue too. They can't get buried in an Orthodox cemetery, but that's true in the United States too. In fact, often Christian cemeteries won't allow suicides or non-baptized babies to be buried on consecrated ground, so you see their graves just outside the fence.

In Israel the non-Orthodox convert gets buried in the non-Orthodox cemetery.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Why? Because I think you're full of bull-pucks and am challenging you on it. There are certainly geneticists studying the human genome who have identified markers associated with Jewish populations, .

If it actually true that there is an identifiable gene, common to all Jews, then the banker's remark was factually true.
If they sacked him over it, he should challenge that.
To my knowledge he didn't say anything antisemitic and this remark was just part of a more general discussion.

 

[Chaos]

If it actually true that there is an identifiable gene, common to all Jews, then the banker's remark was factually true.

That was one minor remark in a long tirade of lies, bigotry and half-truths.

If they sacked him over it, he should challenge that.

They didn´t. They, last thing I heard, are still trying to sack him over his bigotted and counterfactual remarks about the poor and against muslims.

To my knowledge he didn't say anything antisemitic and this remark was just part of a more general discussion.

A more general typical right-wing bigotry directed against the poor and against muslims.

 

[Skeptic]

If it actually true that there is an identifiable gene, common to all Jews, then the banker's remark was factually true.
If they sacked him over it, he should challenge that.
To my knowledge he didn't say anything antisemitic and this remark was just part of a more general discussion.

I think it wasn't the remark itself, but a sort of "straw that broke the camel's back". He has a record of making stupid remarks about all kinds of minorities, so they told him to not say anything on the subject, and he did anyway. Germans here can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Skeptic]

I know you are not used to it but I was looking at the thread topic. Try it sometime.

Ever heard of genetic... er, thread drift?

 

[Skeptic]

Why? Because I think you're full of bull-pucks and am challenging you on it. There are certainly geneticists studying the human genome who have identified markers associated with Jewish populations, but there are not "Jewish scientists" searching for "pure Jews". You made that up.

Must be one of those "holding Jews to a higher standard" thingies. It's Okay to make up stupid lies about them -- keeps them on their toes, making sure they don't backtrack into some immoral behavior. It's actually caring for them.

 

[Chaos]

I think it wasn't the remark itself, but a sort of "straw that broke the camel's back". He has a record of making stupid remarks about all kinds of minorities, so they told him to not say anything on the subject, and he did anyway. Germans here can correct me if I'm wrong.

Now that´s just dishonest. We both know you´ll just ignore it if you are corrected, and keep up the whole "this guy is some sort of evil leftist anti-semite" charade.

This guy was fired because his remarks about the unemployed and about Muslims - typical right-wing bigotry, I might add. He would have been fired just the same without that one remark about Jews.

It is very telling that the usual suspects zero in on that one remark, so they can ignore all the other damning stuff he´s said.