• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The "Nakba" Myth

bit_pattern said:
You obviously don't know the first thing about Australia then... The struggle for land rights in many ways mirrors the Palestinian struggle... Except that we adopted our indigenous population as citizens and gave them the vote back around the time that Israel was doing the exact polar opposite to their Palestinian population.

http://www.indexoz.com/flag/aboriginal-flag.htm
Click to expand...
This weak correlation is just that, weak. Aboriginals didn't have the same opportunities given to them as the Palestinians. Didn't have a leadership and a set of like-minded surrounding countries poised to cleanse the land of Jews in several wars of annihilation and didn't have force themselves to not negotiate (ie Khartoum accords).

The adoption is as laughable as those Americans claiming to having adopted the Native Americans. First genocide, forced relocation, forced integration/education/breeding out, modicum of compensation, a few public apologies, and then miraculously equal rights after there's no demographic threat.

And all this without the precursor of war (actual wars) after the mandate along demographics was offered to both sides. Again, on a landmass almost 350 times smaller, whilst, if you want to compare, Arab countries are sprouting up all around dozens of times larger. So who's this correlation more applicable to anyways?

Add the indigenous bit where aboriginals and native americans existed around 40,000 and 15,000 years, respectively in their lands, while the running definition of a Palestinian refugee, according to the UN, is one who existed on the land in question for at least 2 years prior to 1948, all the while boggling the mind in regards to the impossibility of their growth from ~500,000 to over 4.5 million today. All this after land reforms to boot.

See, after the inclusion of some stark differences between Australia and Israel/Palestine, this weak correlation falls apart. There's no 'mirroring'. Only a hopeful guilt by association...
 
Last edited:
a_unique_person said:
Did they choose to be under the tyranny of a foreign power? One that demonstrated it was prepared to resort to genocide if it's domination was threatened?
Click to expand...
Hit your head? This occupation, ie, lands previously occupied by Egypt/Jordan post 1967, was a product of war. There has been a cessation of hostility from said countries via treaties of non-belligerency and recognition. This doesn't exist with the PA and Hamas, especially the latter, which is still in a state of armed conflict with Israel.

Perhaps you can give me real-world examples where this hasn't been the case when it comes to occupations following wars.

Like the inclusion of 'genocide' here now as well. Adds quite well to your thickness...
 
Thunder said:
err....I never said it was genocide.

you claimed Israel treats Arabs better than the Arab states, and I proved this is a false statement.

try again.
Click to expand...

Arab citizens of Israel are treated better than Arab citizens of Arab states. Israel treats religious and cultural minorities better than Arab states where they are treated like utter ****.

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel. They are at war with Israel. And Israel treats its enemies with more respect that Arab states do.
 
Virus said:
Arab citizens of Israel are treated better than Arab citizens of Arab states. Israel treats religious and cultural minorities better than Arab states where they are treated like utter ****.

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel. They are at war with Israel. And Israel treats its enemies with more respect that Arab states do.
Click to expand...

Evidence for your claims?
 
bigjelmapro said:
Hit your head? This occupation, ie, lands previously occupied by Egypt/Jordan post 1967, was a product of war. There has been a cessation of hostility from said countries via treaties of non-belligerency and recognition. This doesn't exist with the PA and Hamas, especially the latter, which is still in a state of armed conflict with Israel.

Perhaps you can give me real-world examples where this hasn't been the case when it comes to occupations following wars.

Like the inclusion of 'genocide' here now as well. Adds quite well to your thickness...
Click to expand...

Jesus h christ on a pogo stick you can be thick. The context was clearly in reference to the Ottoman empire.
 
a_unique_person said:
Jesus h christ on a pogo stick you can be thick. The context was clearly in reference to the Ottoman empire.
Click to expand...
Love it how you accuse me of being thick... :D

Point out in that post of yours, this clarity of what you were referencing to.

Clarity is definitely not one of your strong suits.

Rotate away...
 
DC said:
Evidence for your claims?
Click to expand...
Really? You're asking for this? Thought this was a basic claim already established several times since I've been on this forum.

Here's a place to start, pick the country, read the report. Choose a year, see trends:
Freedom in the World

By the way, this is a pretty wide subject to be asking evidence for, which I can presume is a deterrent for the person who is providing evidence for said claims. Quite a cheap way to 'win' an argument, albeit this has been addressed already.

Anyways, look at the site.
 
bigjelmapro said:
Love it how you accuse me of being thick... :D

Point out in that post of yours, this clarity of what you were referencing to.

Clarity is definitely not one of your strong suits.

Rotate away...
Click to expand...

I was replying to your claim that

Originally Posted by bigjelmapro
Who is talking about that?

There was no country, simply a dissolved empire.
Click to expand...

Why do I have to remind you what you claimed? If you don't remember what I am responding to, you and others claim the right to misrepresent and abuse me. That hardly surprises me though, it's been common here over many years.
 
DC said:
Evidence for your claims?
Click to expand...

Seriously, you didn't know that the Coptic Christians are persecuted in Egypt? You didn't know the Kurds are persecuted by Syria? You didn't know that Shiia are persecuted in Saudi Arabia? You didn't know that Shiia are forbidden to attend Al-Azhar university? Persecution of minorities in Arab countries is news to you?
 
Virus said:
Seriously, you didn't know that the Coptic Christians are persecuted in Egypt? You didn't know the Kurds are persecuted by Syria? You didn't know that Shiia are persecuted in Saudi Arabia? You didn't know that Shiia are forbidden to attend Al-Azhar university? Persecution of minorities in Arab countries is news to you?
Click to expand...

that doesn't prove your claim.
 
a_unique_person said:
I was replying to your claim that
...
Why do I have to remind you what you claimed? If you don't remember what I am responding to, you and others claim the right to misrepresent and abuse me. That hardly surprises me though, it's been common here over many years.
Click to expand...
Follow the succession of replies, and what you responded to here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6277130&postcount=714
a_unique_person said:
bigjelmapro said:
Who is talking about that?

There was no country, simply a dissolved empire. No retrospective application of a name translated through 2-3 different languages totally losing its meaning in the process, attributed to a group of different people not associated with Palestinian Arabs to begin with, is not going to make this unique country of Palestine magically appear prior to the establishment of Israel....
Click to expand...
There were people there. With homes and a right to self determination. They did not choose to be the subject of a tryanny.
Click to expand...
Where's the connection to what you stated above 'clearly' in reference to the Ottoman empire? A 'dissolved empire' (past tense, as in non-existent anymore) is not a clear reference to the 'tyranny' you stated, but is more interpreted to refer to Israel or the Palestine mandate.

So cease with the whinging about being a victim. You lack clarity, and this is not the first time....
 
Virus said:
Seriously, you didn't know that the Coptic Christians are persecuted in Egypt? You didn't know the Kurds are persecuted by Syria? You didn't know that Shiia are persecuted in Saudi Arabia? You didn't know that Shiia are forbidden to attend Al-Azhar university? Persecution of minorities in Arab countries is news to you?
Click to expand...

The Kurds are pretty much persecuted everywhere.

At least in Iraq their situation has improved thanks to the US.
 
bigjelmapro said:
This has been discussed before, but you choose to ignore previous threads which you have been part of too.

I linked a website you should check out here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6279746&postcount=747. Stop skimming.
Click to expand...

from your link

Although they have full political rights, the roughly one million Arab citizens of Israel (about 19 percent of the population) receive inferior education, housing, and social services relative to the Jewish population. Arab Israelis, except for the Druze minority, are not subject to the military draft, though they may volunteer. Those who do not serve are ineligible for the associated benefits, including scholarships and housing loans. In 2000, 13 Arabs were killed by police attempting to quell several days of often violent protests in support of the concurrent uprising in the Palestinian territories. A subsequent state-sponsored investigation (the Orr Commission) found that the government’s “neglectful and discriminatory” management of the Arab population had led to “poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system and substantially defective infrastructure.” In 2008, the attorney general announced that no police officers would be prosecuted for the 13 killings due to lack of evidence, drawing objections from human rights groups.

Separately, a July 2007 report by the state comptroller heavily criticized the government for failure to protect Arab Israeli villages—most of which did not have bomb shelters—during the 2006 conflict with Hezbollah. In 2008 and 2009, a number of Jewish towns in the north began insisting that prospective property buyers accept Israel’s existence as a Jewish and democratic state as well as the towns’ “Zionist ethos.” These restrictions, widely perceived as attempts to exclude Arabs, are being challenged in court. In 2008, Jewish youths in the city of Akko attacked an Arab Israeli who drove through a mostly Jewish neighborhood during the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur; this prompted retaliation by Arab youths and riots that spread to other cities.

Most Bedouin housing settlements are not recognized by the government or provided with essential services. International and domestic human rights groups have accused the government of pervasive land and housing discrimination against the Bedouin, and have urged authorities to stop demolishing unlicensed Bedouin homes. In December 2008, a Knesset-appointed committee called for the state to recognize villages and legalize buildings without permits as long as the settlements had a “minimal mass” of residents that would not affect existing regional plans. The state’s Israeli Lands Administration owns 93 percent of the land in Israel; 13 percent of that is owned by the Jewish National Fund (JNF). In 2005, the Supreme Court and attorney general ruled that the JNF could no longer market property only to Jews. The Knesset made a first attempt to override those rulings in 2007, but the process remained incomplete at the end of 2009.
Click to expand...
 
bigjelmapro said:
This weak correlation is just that, weak. Aboriginals didn't have the same opportunities given to them as the Palestinians. Didn't have a leadership and a set of like-minded surrounding countries poised to cleanse the land of Jews in several wars of annihilation and didn't have force themselves to not negotiate (ie Khartoum accords).

The adoption is as laughable as those Americans claiming to having adopted the Native Americans. First genocide, forced relocation, forced integration/education/breeding out, modicum of compensation, a few public apologies, and then miraculously equal rights after there's no demographic threat.

And all this without the precursor of war (actual wars) after the mandate along demographics was offered to both sides. Again, on a landmass almost 350 times smaller, whilst, if you want to compare, Arab countries are sprouting up all around dozens of times larger. So who's this correlation more applicable to anyways?

Add the indigenous bit where aboriginals and native americans existed around 40,000 and 15,000 years, respectively in their lands, while the running definition of a Palestinian refugee, according to the UN, is one who existed on the land in question for at least 2 years prior to 1948, all the while boggling the mind in regards to the impossibility of their growth from ~500,000 to over 4.5 million today. All this after land reforms to boot.

See, after the inclusion of some stark differences between Australia and Israel/Palestine, this weak correlation falls apart. There's no 'mirroring'. Only a hopeful guilt by association...
Click to expand...


... And what does any of that have to do with national identity?
 
DC said:
from your link
Click to expand...
Cherry-picking as usual. Brunt of those issues listed regards bedoins, which already has a separate thread, including the issue of states services and land purchases.

Want to continue to detract or you going to stick with the reason why this link was provided, which was a comparison of rights and freedoms in the ME and N. Africa.

So?
 
bigjelmapro said:
Follow the succession of replies, and what you responded to here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6277130&postcount=714

Where's the connection to what you stated above 'clearly' in reference to the Ottoman empire? A 'dissolved empire' (past tense, as in non-existent anymore) is not a clear reference to the 'tyranny' you stated, but is more interpreted to refer to Israel or the Palestine mandate.

So cease with the whinging about being a victim. You lack clarity, and this is not the first time....
Click to expand...

No, it is just one more example of a misunderstanding leading to personalisation of an issue and unwarranted abuse. I'm betting it won't be the last time this happens, either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom