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Merged Obama enters GZ Mosque debate

I really don't think this would answer any questions at all. Why would or should proximity matter?


It does pose some interesting questions. So, two blocks away is too close and ten blocks away is far enough. Okay, can we haggle? How about eight blocks? Still far enough away? What about six blocks? That's three times as far as two blocks. Too close? How about 6½ blocks?

How exactly does one determine how far away is far enough? What's the criteria involved?

I can't but help think of the joke usually attributed to Winston Churchill asking a woman at a party to sleep with him...
 
And you continue to have the comprehension problem. This is the last spoon feeding for your comprehension:

I said IF the Imam was found to be a radical, there would be a valid concern with the location, not that there IS a valid concern with the information we have currently.

Put me on ignore if you can't handle the fact that I'll make a point when I feel a point needs to be made.

Yes, and if, sorry, I mean IF, pigs could fly, there would, sorry, would, be a need to keep them in birdcages instead of pens. However, in reality (you know, that weird thing that exists no matter how much whackos and loonies deny it) there is no such need.

So, put me on ignore if you can´t handle reality, but that point need only be made if or IF anyone demonstrates that the precondition for your "valid concern" would or would be fulfilled. Until then, your harping is willingly and knowingly playing into the hands of the racist bigots.
 
because its govt. property and such would be a violation of church/state seperation.

hence, I oppose NY Governor Patterson wanting to swap the current property for state property further away from GZ. same state/church seperation issue.

So do you think the worship center in the Pentagon should be removed?
 
So do you think the worship center in the Pentagon should be removed?
The military community must often function as a self-contained culture apart from the general population. Writers at least as far back as Clausewitz have recognzed that.

Religious devotions are a part of the daily lives of nearly all humans. (Even atheists, if you look closely enough, can be observed to spend a good part of a normal day trashing the religious notions of various communities of faith.)

Among the things that will motivate a soldier to endure the hardships and absurdities of military life, one must include his religous beliefs (or lack thereof.) Thus, it is in the interest of the armed services to make provisions for the religious and spiritual needs of the soldier.

It is clearly not in the interest of the services to make a Muslim soldier travel any significant distance from his work station to perform salat or to require that he forego that religious requirement in the absence of some over-weighing mission requirement. A designated room within the building is simply an accomodation of a valid personal requirement. It does serve the purposes of military discipline and morale to the extent that it emphasizes the feeling that one's fellow soldiers are a part of one's own unique community.

My only gripe with this accomodation of a soldier's spiritual needs is that all too often a few whacked-out officers decide that soldiers MUST avail themselves of the facilities provided for relgious observances. I have no use for such Dominionist thuggery.

It is not the concern of the state to provide a place of worship for a community at liberty to move about at will. The state need merely stand out of the way when they assemble peaceably. It is especially in the interest of the state that persons of faith congregate with one another in their own neighborhoods, to the extent that this helps form some bonds, some idea of community and some idea of mutual dependency in spiritual matters. It promotes domestic tranquility.

The offer of another location as an alternative should be seen as an insult, because it implies that there is a reason to placate thugs like Geller, Breibart and the usual array of wrongwing blathermeisters on the FauX News network, and becausae it disrupts the community which the center was intended to serve.
 
The only imdication I have seen that he is at all tolerant of Wahibis came out of some rightwhackers underwear. There was no problem until twits like Geller, Hannity and the Rushblob jumped on it.

I wonder if Bush ever said anything supportive of the Saudi royal family.... they're Wahabis who thought they could solve their domestic problem by sending their unwanted firebrands to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. I wonder how that's turning out....
 
I wonder if Bush ever said anything supportive of the Saudi royal family.... they're Wahabis who thought they could solve their domestic problem by sending their unwanted firebrands to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. I wonder how that's turning out....

Not too well, at last report.

Never try to play the followers of another religion to your own ends. It can backfire on you. And never make a fight about religion if there was some different original cause for strife. It can make a fragmented enemy a bit more solid in opposition to your designs.
 
Charlie Brooker's take
Things seem awfully heated in America right now; so heated you could probably toast a marshmallow by jabbing it on a stick and holding it toward the Atlantic. Millions are hopping mad over the news that a bunch of triumphalist Muslim extremists are about to build a "victory mosque" slap bang in the middle of Ground Zero.

The planned "ultra-mosque" will be a staggering 5,600ft tall – more than five times higher than the tallest building on Earth – and will be capped with an immense dome of highly-polished solid gold, carefully positioned to bounce sunlight directly toward the pavement, where it will blind pedestrians and fry small dogs. The main structure will be delimited by 600 minarets, each shaped like an upraised middle finger, and housing a powerful amplifier: when synchronised, their combined sonic might will be capable of relaying the muezzin's call to prayer at such deafening volume, it will be clearly audible in the Afghan mountains, where thousands of terrorists are poised to celebrate by running around with scarves over their faces, firing AK-47s into the sky and yelling whatever the foreign word for "victory" is.

I'm exaggerating. But I'm only exaggerating a tad more than some of the professional exaggerators who initially raised objections to the "Ground Zero mosque". They keep calling it the "Ground Zero mosque", incidentally, because it's a catchy title that paints a powerful image – specifically, the image of a mosque at Ground Zero...

(H)ere in London, something that is "two minutes' walk and round a corner" from something else isn't actually "in" the same place at all. I once had a poo in a pub about two minutes' walk from Buckingham Palace. I was not subsequently arrested and charged with crapping directly onto the Queen's pillow. That's how "distance" works in Britain. It's also how distance works in America, of course, but some people are currently pretending it doesn't, for daft political ends.
 
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Wouldn't it be better to know where the enemy is, if this was the case?
So you think it a good strategy to encourage the creation of a place where radicals would knowingly be attracted to in close proximity to a place where they previously destroyed in order to keep an eye on them?

So, put me on ignore if you can´t handle reality, but that point need only be made if or IF anyone demonstrates that the precondition for your "valid concern" would or would be fulfilled. Until then, your harping is willingly and knowingly playing into the hands of the racist bigots.
I'll make the point when I feel it's relevant to the discussion, not with your approval or permission, and despite your whining and sarcasm. The fact is, there was a claim that the imam might have made more radical statements in the past. Someone claimed it would be irrelevant even if true. I pointed out it would be very relevant if true and the reasons why. Your passion to paint everything you disagree with as bigoted and racist is really quite transparent.
 
So you think it a good strategy to encourage the creation of a place where radicals would knowingly be attracted to in close proximity to a place where they previously destroyed in order to keep an eye on them?

Why not? Of course, this is totally hypothetical, since the Imam leading this building is an enemy of those radicals.
 
Someone want to take up the challenge of explaining how anti-Islamic sentiment in the U.S. differs from anti-Jewish sentiment in pre-WWII Europe?


Challenge? The true challenge would be to educate the invincibly ignorant.

The U.S. doesn't have the equivalent Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service, banning Muslims from being employed in government.

In the U.S. Muslims are not prohibited from joining the military.

The U.S. does not have any equivalent Nuremberg Laws for Muslims.

The U.S. doesn't have any equivalent of the Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honor, which would prevent marriage between a Muslim and non-Muslim.

The U.S. has not had any Kristallnachts

The U.S. is not teaching anti-Islamic propaganda in schools.

The U.S. apparently forgot to build concentration camps to imprison American Muslims.

The U.S. has 1200 mosques. The U.S. has not turned these into collection point for those about to be deported.


Right. America is identical to Europe in the 1930's. :jaw-dropp
 
POTUS Obama is dubious about the "wisdom" of building it at that location. :jaw-dropp

I do too, but then I question the wisdom of anyone wanting to build in Manhattan - or downtown LA, Houston, Chicago...

I'm not really a big city guy, but hey, different strokes for different folks.
 
The U.S. has not had any Kristallnachts

The U.S. is not teaching anti-Islamic propaganda in schools.

The U.S. apparently forgot to build concentration camps to imprison American Muslims.

No, not yet.

But we do have extremists protesting every time Muslims want to build a new mosque. Its seems like some bigots consider all of the USA to be "hallowed ground".
 
So do you think the worship center in the Pentagon should be removed?

honestly?

I do not like the idea of seperate chapels for different religions.

I'd like to see one universal chapel, where people of all faiths can pray.
 
I do too, but then I question the wisdom of anyone wanting to build in Manhattan - or downtown LA, Houston, Chicago...

I'm not really a big city guy, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

And on top of that, why would you want to stick your thumb in the eye of those whom you are supposedly trying to be buddies with?
 
Jon Stewart doesn't understand English either, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2P2innj12c

By invoking the word "wisdom," POTUS Obama's opinion is obvious to everyone, unless you are Pardalis.

Jon Stewart's job is to try to find anything to make a joke with.

And what was Obama answering to? Both videos conveniently cut off the journalist's question to him. Maybe the journalist is the one who suggested the word "wisdom" in his question. Ever thought of that?

You're grasping at straws. Obama is acting like a true secular President. I know it's unusual for America.
 
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Jon Stewart's job is to try to find anything to make a joke with.

And POTUS Obama was most obliging.

And what was Obama answering to? Both videos conveniently cuts off the journalist's question to him. Maybe the journalist is the one who suggested the word "wisdom" in his question. Ever thought of that?

Full video. Nobody used the word "wisdom" other than POTUS Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baMmL_Ez3iE&NR=1

You're grasping at straws. Obama is acting like a true secular President. I know it's unusual for America.

So you believe POTUS Obama is "acting?"
 
And on top of that, why would you want to stick your thumb in the eye of those whom you are supposedly trying to be buddies with?

I am? That doesn't sound like something I'd do. I'm not trying to prevent anyone from living downtown if they want to.

Or do you mean the Cordoba house people? Where everyone was cool with it until some islamaphobes started raising a stink? What happened to the free market? Let 'em build what they want, where they want, says I.
 

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