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The "Nakba" Myth

While I am certain israeli propagandists claim a lot of things. However I thought it was clear I was talking about the original West Bank protests over Israeli occupation forcing Israeli slanted textbooks into their schools. The parents protested and the IDF visited their homes and arrested their children and held them hostage until their parents agreed to stop protesting the Israeli control of their education.
So still no source, still no specifics ('original protests'?). Just more unsubstantiated drivel and rhetoric. You can try at any point.

The case was recently revived in which a cameraman filming the protest and no where near the protesters was struck in the head by a gun launched tear gas canister.
You referring to the American, Tristan Anderson (again, because you can't be bothered to do any leg-work for sources), the cameraman who attended the weekly protests in N’alin against the separation barrier by ISM (not peaceful 'activists'), that was struck in the head by a long-range, high-velocity gas canister? Anderson's attorneys merely appealed the previous decision of the court which found no criminal negligence in the use of the gas canister and definitely that it was not aimed, which was your point in the beginning.

What I asked was why you considered a lethal round to be non-lethal. I presume you are not one of those who believes the name given a thing governs what a thing is.
Again, not my personal definition but how this is classified as. Start another thread.

If you had wanted a url you could have so I could have told you to look it up.
Your original claim was that Americans don't have access to European media. This is another baseless claim. Simple.

I was thinking of other things not your red herring.
Classic. The person changes arguments like the seasons accuses me of diversionary tactics. :D

I was talking about the reports of near weekly of IDF violence on the peaceful protests against the illegal apartheid wall in occupied territory for example. I was thinking about the regular Israeli reports of systematic government discrimination against non-jewish Israelis. Also about the systematic humiliation of and violence upon Palestinians in the West Bank and occupied Jerusalem by the both the IDF and by the squatters under the protection and watchful eye of the IDF.
Yay, we're on 'illegal apartheid wall' now. And 'systematic discrimination'. Plenty of threads on this. Sure you can pile a bit more into this thread though. And again, all unsourced.

Just recently there was an article saying how good it was that Jews do control Hollywood in Haaretz -- A Ha'Aretz goes Gibson moment. The recent conviction for rape because the man was not a Jew and how the judge recited racial purity in his decision....
All unsourced. Op-ed pieces apparently don't exist anywhere else in the world either eh? Plenty of stories are carried by the various Israeli news outlets. So what is your accusation here anyways? No freedom of the press? Lack of coverage?
 
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This is how you earned your rep isn't it? It's all on "Giwer's World" on articles written by "Matt Giwer" Is that your site or not?

There is nothing antisemitic on my website.

The word antisemitic has a meaning. It is neither a label nor a pejorative for material you do not like. It never applies to recitation of fact. Your opinion of a fact is a separate and personal issue for you.
 
So still no source, still no specifics ('original protests'?). Just more unsubstantiated drivel and rhetoric.

Have you never noticed isreality is no more than that?

Did you leave a trail of breadcrumbs so you can find you way back to the cabbage patch?

Any idea why there are so many of you Israelis posting to JREF?
 
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What do you want to do with the Five Million Jews now in Israel?
I have never got a good response from the Anti Israel crowd on that one.
let them swim back to Poland.
:p

Seems to me they are adults and can take care of themselves.

Consider it was their own free choice to go and live in the most dangerous place in the world for a Jew to live. No one forced them. No one passed childhood innocence could honestly believe the rightful owners would ever leave them in peace with their theft. For those who were born there, they can curse their parents and get on with life.

Adults are responsible for the choices they make. They got themselves into it they can get themselves out of it. Perhaps Egypt will give them refugee camps in the Sinai no better than the Palestinian refugees received. That would at least be poetic justice. But that would be Egypt's choice.

A zionist is a Jew who collects money from another Jew to send a third Jew to Palestine.

Rest assured those behind the disaster will be the first to leave and with their fortunes intact.
 
Consider it was their own free choice to go and live in the most dangerous place in the world for a Jew to live. No one forced them.

Lie. Most Israelis were born there.

No one passed childhood innocence could honestly believe the rightful owners would ever leave them in peace with their theft.

The first state to legally own Palestine under international law was Britain. They allocated land for Jews in their partition of the defeated Ottoman Empire, just like they allocated it to heaps of other people which suspiciously, nobody complains about.

For those who were born there, they can curse their parents and get on with life.

With Hamas and Hezbollah rockets and terrorism. Israel isn't being unreasonable. Let them get on with their life and they'll leave you alone. **** with them and you ask for it.

Adults are responsible for the choices they make.

Unless you're an Arab terrorist in which case western leftist intellectuals and neo-fascist antisemites will absolve you of any responsibility for your actions and "understand" your "reaction" to "grievances"

They got themselves into it they can get themselves out of it. Perhaps Egypt will give them refugee camps in the Sinai no better than the Palestinian refugees received. That would at least be poetic justice. But that would be Egypt's choice.

They can keep up defending themselves for as long as they want.

A zionist is a Jew who collects money from another Jew to send a third Jew to Palestine.

Wrong. A Zionist is someone who believes that Jews should have a state.

Rest assured those behind the disaster will be the first to leave and with their fortunes intact.

Those who started the '47 war? That would be the Arab states.
 
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Originally Posted by Matt Giwer
A zionist is a Jew who collects money from another Jew to send a third Jew to Palestine.

:p

late night comedy.
 
You know how much money they have?

How would I?

All countries have ruling families.

Haaretz has put the number as low as seven and as high as twenty but most references are to seven.

By population ratio of 300:6 millions (those not living in Israel are not counted as its population) one expects the number of such families in Israel to be only 2% of those in the US. If we exclude non-Jews it becomes 300:4.8 and if we exclude second class Sephardim Jews we have perhaps 300:3 at best.

One expects Israel to have a proportionate number of families. At this population ratio it is unsurprising that they can be easily counted.
 
Originally Posted by Matt Giwer [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif[/qimg]
A zionist is a Jew who collects money from another Jew to send a third Jew to Palestine.

:p

late night comedy.

The point of course being that people went to and still go to Palestine not from ideology but because the price is right.

Patriotic noises about Olim are to be expected. There was and is still lots of patriotic noise about Americans volunteering to fight in WWII. Fact is 97% were drafted. The reasons the remaining 3% volunteered are unknown.
 
Lie. Most Israelis were born there.
Actually only 40% were but even so they were born there they are in the "curse your parents" category. Of course they have even worse problems if IQ really is heritable because they had stupid parents.

The first state to legally own Palestine under international law was Britain. They allocated land for Jews in their partition of the defeated Ottoman Empire, just like they allocated it to heaps of other people which suspiciously, nobody complains about.

I do in fact deserve a medal for putting up with such profound ignorance.

IF by ownership you mean sovereignty THEN the following can be said under that assumed meaning.

Palestine owned itself in the 5th c. BC when Herodotus visited and wrote about it. Before him it was owned by Egypt, the Hittites, Assyria and Babylon. While he was there it was owned by Persia. Later it was owned by Greece, Rome, Byzantium, various Muslim empires and for most of the last five centuries by the Ottoman empire.

IF you mean actual land ownership as in title deeds THEN individuals owned pieces of the land.

Sovereignty is not ownership.

Britain held an administrative mandate but NOT ownership and NOT sovereignty.

With Hamas and Hezbollah rockets and terrorism. Israel isn't being unreasonable. Let them get on with their life and they'll leave you alone. **** with them and you ask for it.

In the years the Hamas rockets managed to kill only one Israeli, the IDF murdered nearly 500 residents of Gaza. In all those years Israel has maintained a blockade on Gaza so the use of violence is quite legal. By international law which is recognized by Israel, Gaza is under belligerent occupation. In those same years they also murdered well over a thousand of their fellow Palestinians east of the 1948 borders of Israel, i.e. the occupied territories.

Unless you're an Arab terrorist in which case western leftist intellectuals and neo-fascist antisemites will absolve you of any responsibility for your actions and "understand" your "reaction" to "grievances"
What do you expect? Leftist intellectuals also supported the Jewish terrorists in Palestine from the early 1920s. Terrorists are terrorists. Hagana, Stern Gang, Lehi and uncounted number of "splitters" who were terrorists in their own right.

The only good news is the Palestinian terrorists have yet to sink to the depths of depravity of the Jewish terrorists.

As for fascist, the speculation in Israel today is if the fascist tendencies of the present government will continue to become even more fascist. I have yet to read anyone disputing the idea that the present government is in fact a fascist government only its apparent ineptitude in implementing its fascist policies.

They can keep up defending themselves for as long as they want.
I would never expect a thief to voluntarily give up what he has stolen. I could not expect the Zionist thieves to voluntarily return what they stole. I can however simply note by definition all zionists are murderers by your definition which follows. A Zionist is in fact a person who believes "jews" as defined by civil law have a right to murder others, drive them out and steal their land in order to satisfy their middle eastern ideal of a "jewish" state. A state I might add in which political advocacy of equal rights for all Israelis is a crime.

Wrong. A Zionist is someone who believes that Jews should have a state.

Yes, that is someone who is as politically primitive as Saudi and Iran and others who believe in Muslim states. But Israel claims to be a modern, western style democracy. Everyone knows they are a primitive ethnocentric blot on western ideals.

Those who started the '47 war? That would be the Arab states.

Obviously you missed all the exposes by jewish, Israeli authors who, using Israeli government records, trashcanned that propaganda more than 15 years ago. Please catch up with the well known facts. The Palestinian narrative is the correct one. The Jewish narrative has been exposed as pure nonsense.

When do I get my medal?
 
Actually only 40% were but even so they were born there they are in the "curse your parents" category. Of course they have even worse problems if IQ really is heritable because they had stupid parents.
Source? Asked for this before, but you avoided this.

Palestine owned itself in the 5th c. BC when Herodotus visited and wrote about it. Before him it was owned by Egypt, the Hittites, Assyria and Babylon. While he was there it was owned by Persia. Later it was owned by Greece, Rome, Byzantium, various Muslim empires and for most of the last five centuries by the Ottoman empire.
Why do you keep repeating this drivel? Herodotus never visited the area referred to as Syria-Palestine, he merely relied on 2nd hand testimony. I even linked it, but somehow you keep repeating this.

IF you mean actual land ownership as in title deeds THEN individuals owned pieces of the land.
Not too well versed with Tanzimat land reforms eh? Or even before that, personal land ownership was in the single digit % numbers. It was the British land reforms in the mid 1920's that handed out 'title deeds' to those without previous claim to the land.

Britain held an administrative mandate but NOT ownership and NOT sovereignty.
And yet the British managed to hand out 'title deeds' to the land.

In the years the Hamas rockets managed to kill only one Israeli, the IDF murdered nearly 500 residents of Gaza. In all those years Israel has maintained a blockade on Gaza so the use of violence is quite legal. By international law which is recognized by Israel, Gaza is under belligerent occupation. In those same years they also murdered well over a thousand of their fellow Palestinians east of the 1948 borders of Israel, i.e. the occupied territories.
Actually, since Hamas took over Gaza, the rockets/mortars killed over 14, but the death ratio argument hasn't worked before, so why should it now?

The blockade against Gaza started with the infighting between Hamas and Fatah following Hamas's victory in the elections.

In the other thread, you posted a unsourced Haaretz article about the 'belligerent occupation' in regards to Gaza, but failed to read that this allegation has been a thing of the past since the unilateral pullout of 2005.

Again, 1948 weren't borders, voided armistice lines, and not demanded since the failed 1973 war by the Arabs.

How much drivel and fail are you going to spam in this forum?

What do you expect? Leftist intellectuals also supported the Jewish terrorists in Palestine from the early 1920s. Terrorists are terrorists. Hagana, Stern Gang, Lehi and uncounted number of "splitters" who were terrorists in their own right.
Source?

The only good news is the Palestinian terrorists have yet to sink to the depths of depravity of the Jewish terrorists.
The Palestinian terrorist organizations have done far, far worse.

Obviously you missed all the exposes by jewish, Israeli authors who, using Israeli government records, trashcanned that propaganda more than 15 years ago. Please catch up with the well known facts. The Palestinian narrative is the correct one. The Jewish narrative has been exposed as pure nonsense.
Like who? Even self-proclaimed 'new historian' Benny Morris doesn't claim such things. Source?
 
So what's your solution Matt? Israel should cease to exist?

Jews wiped Palestine off the map and no one appears to miss it. I don't see why it would be any different should Israel disappear. It is just one more pissant country in world with too many pissant countries.

But the equally racist Union of South Africa did not cease to exist. It simply ended its racist policies. So it is not certain the name will disappear.

I still do not understand why so many of you Israelis wage your propaganda (hasbara, isreality) campaigns here. It isn't like JREF is all that well known.
 
Source? Asked for this before, but you avoided this.
A minor correction is not worth a diversion.

Why do you keep repeating this drivel? Herodotus never visited the area referred to as Syria-Palestine, he merely relied on 2nd hand testimony. I even linked it, but somehow you keep repeating this.
It is one opinion that he did not however there is little question he got as far as Tyre which is being there.

Regardless of his sources, Palestine could only have been mentioned because it existed. There if no mention of any Judeans by him or by Alexander's chroniclers. By the available physical evidence the Palestinians pre-date the Judeans by centuries.

Not too well versed with Tanzimat land reforms eh? Or even before that, personal land ownership was in the single digit % numbers. It was the British land reforms in the mid 1920's that handed out 'title deeds' to those without previous claim to the land.

And yet the British managed to hand out 'title deeds' to the land.
Land ownership by the Palestinians is thus supported by British common law. That is good to know.

Actually, since Hamas took over Gaza, the rockets/mortars killed over 14, but the death ratio argument hasn't worked before, so why should it now?
Asking for a source for 14 would also be an unnecessary diversion. Military deaths do not count of course. Death ratio matters as a disproportionate military response is in itself a war crime.

The blockade against Gaza started with the infighting between Hamas and Fatah following Hamas's victory in the elections.
The old "Israel is no better than" approach should be retired.

In the other thread, you posted a unsourced Haaretz
Unsourced and Haaretz hardly go together.
article about the 'belligerent occupation' in regards to Gaza, but failed to read that this allegation has been a thing of the past since the unilateral pullout of 2005.
Both articles were from late 2005 after the removal of the criminal squatters.

Again, 1948 weren't borders, voided armistice lines, and not demanded since the failed 1973 war by the Arabs.
According to zionists who are by definition murderers and thieves they were not borders. According to the UN they were borders. They are used as borders by the UN is all of its actions related to Israel such as the current more careful redetermination of the border with Lebanon and two years ago re-establishing the fact that Israel still occupies part of Lebanon known as the Shaaba Farms. The world court also accepted the UN determination of borders when it found essentially all of the apartheid wall was build beyond the borders of Israel.

Of course zionists can neither be wrong nor do wrong as they are a saintly people.

How much drivel and fail are you going to spam in this forum?
I see no reason to tell lies just because zionists try to hide behind being Jews.

You really don't know Hagana, Stern Gang, and Lehi were terrorist organizations?

The Palestinian terrorist organizations have done far, far worse.
When did they kidnap and publicly hang two enlisted members of the IDF as Jews did to two young British soldiers? When did they bomb a grocery store in retaliation for the arrest of a Palestinian as the Zionists used to bomb Palestinians markets (maximizing women and children) when one of theirs was arrested? How about bombing a hotel and then claiming innocence because a warning was phoned in? (I civilized countries even fake bomb threats are crimes.)

The list is longer but you get the gist of it.

Like who? Even self-proclaimed 'new historian' Benny Morris doesn't claim such things. Source?

I give five or six authors before. Did you miss the list? The only one who has "recanted" is Morris so he is the darling of the zionist animals. Even he has given his basis for recantation: it lead to the founding of Israel which is the greater good. One has to be as low as a zionist to accept something like that.
 
It is just one more pissant country in world with too many pissant countries.

Actually it's a powerhouse of innovation that has contributed many things to modern society. It's the Arab states that nobody would miss since they've never accomplished a single thing.
 
Actually it's a powerhouse of innovation that has contributed many things to modern society. It's the Arab states that nobody would miss since they've never accomplished a single thing.

Yes, I am aware of izziehuggers torturing every fact until it confesses to having been an israeli innovation. Excuse me a JEWISH israeli innovation.

The current idiocy is that Israel invented the multicore microprocessor. The previous idiocy was that it invented the Pentium chip.

One has to be particularly ignorant of microprocessors to believe such crap.

Every other claim I have tracked down has been equally stupid. But if you believe it perhaps it will keep the ghosts away after your mother puts you to bed.
=====

Pentium: a small team in Israel had a contract from Intel to participate in the development of the MMX instruction set. That was the total involvement of Israel.

multicore: An equally small team in Israel participated in the development of the power management protocol for the Intel multicore chips. Many, myself included, find the AMD protocol much more suited to the pure number crunching applications which are most of my applications -- seti@home and rendering to be specific.

It is all the desperate attempt of a truly inferior research country to feel important. But do not think this is anything new. All of bibleland never contributed a single thing to human civilization in any field. Not philosophy, architecture, math, science, literature, poetry, arts, nothing, nada, zilch. Why try to break a loser streak now?
 

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