The "Nakba" Myth

Thunder said:
as there is no agreement between the Israelis and the Arabs as to how mnay were forced out and how many left by choice, I say we just split it 50/50.

400,000 left on their own accord...and 400,000 were forced out by the Zionist military and irregular forces.
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You may as well imagine whatever you want. It is a rather useless way of deciding facts, as is this discussion.

(By the way, my number is taken from a talk by Benny Morris.)
 
Thunder said:
as there is no agreement between the Israelis and the Arabs as to how mnay were forced out and how many left by choice, I say we just split it 50/50.

400,000 left on their own accord...and 400,000 were forced out by the Zionist military and irregular forces.
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Refugees fleeing a war is not leaving of your own accord.
 
The Arabs should have taken that:



In hindsight, dumb. But nobody makes decisions in hindsight and they calculated that a ten-on-one gang up was a sure bet to victory.

 

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a_unique_person said:
But what he says is exactly what Bibi, Begin, and Sharon think and did/do. He also outlined exactly what happened, and why. While there was some unrealistic idealism about Israel's creation and existence by other influential zionsists, what it has come down to is exactly what Jabotinsky foretold, for the reasons he gave, and that is exactly what is dominating Israeli politics now. The Palestinians were not going to give up without a fight, the only way to deal with that is to crush them, the words that Bibi used on the tape. As he said, that's what everyone else would do in the same situation.
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I don't see very many parallels. Could you point them out for us?
 
Yay. Galloway. Wonder how much Hamas/Palestinian aid money he's got in his coffers this year. :D What a yuppie.
 
bit_pattern said:
I see you a partisan hack and raise you one

George Galloway on Palestine
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I'll raise your George Galloway with my George Galloway:





Are you saying that Douglass Murray and his support for the democratic state of Israel is the equivalent of George Galloway and his support of Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Basshar Assad?
 
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bit_pattern would have a point if he could show us videos of Chomsky, Galloway, etc., supporting Israel. That, indeed, would be strong evidence Israel is a terroristic dictatorship, based on these fools' long record of praising to the sky any westerner-killing thug they can find.

Now that all he has is videos of Galloway & co. opposing Israel, that is pretty good evidence -- all in itself -- that Israel is a democratic country which cares about human rights, since those are the only kind of countries these folks attack.
 
Matt Giwer said:
Absolutely correct. A bunch are crazies produced a lot of bullshucks but not a single one of them can be found on groups.google.com so what is the point of posting that crap.
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To show what kind of soft-spoken, intelligent, and tolerant person you are, Matt.

The "Jewboy" quote, together with the "holocaust never happened" stuff, sort of ruins the "I'm just an anti-zionist, not an antisemite" stance.
 
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Doctor Evil said:
Wrong again. War started after the UN resolution in Nov. 1947. The Jewish forces adopted a defensive strategy hoping that the Arab attacks would diminish.
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I guess all those memebers of the 6th Airborne Division just died because they were loved too much then.
 
Pardalis said:
And comparing the Nakba to the Holocaust isn't? :rolleyes:
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And let's be honest here. The "catastrophe" that is commemorated every year as "Nakba" is that an attempt at genocide failed. If it was just about people being made refugees in war, then what is morned would be the failure of those same people to accept the UN separation agreement instead of going to war.

The consistent narrative of the anti-Israel crowd is that everything bad happening to Palestinian-Arabs is something that was arbitrarily done to them by Israelis/Jews for no reason at all. To keep the aura of victim-hood intact it's necessary to very carefully remove from the narrative all context in which anything anything was done, as well as all mention of everything done by the larger Arab world to doom these poor people to generations of never-ending warfare.
 
Mycroft said:
To keep the aura of victim-hood intact it's necessary to very carefully remove from the narrative all context in which anything anything was done, as well as all mention of everything done by the larger Arab world to doom these poor people to generations of never-ending warfare.
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In fairness generations of never-ending warfare is normal in many parts of the world. Europe for example.
 
a_unique_person said:
Refugees fleeing a war is not leaving of your own accord.
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Doesn't that depend on the circumstances?

You have the Jewish leaders imploring them to stay and help build a nation together, then you have Arab leaders telling them to get out of the way so they won't hinder the carnage, and it's all just on the heels of an overall Arab rejection of the UN partition plan...?

There were certainly some Arabs who were forced into decisions not of their own choosing, Deir Yassin being the most noteworthy example, but the majority were not.
 
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