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The "Nakba" Myth

After WW2, all Germans were expelled from Czechoslovakia...except those who fit the following criteria:

There was substantial exceptions from expulsions that applied to about 244,000 ethnic Germans who were allowed to remain in Czechoslovakia. Following groups of ethnic Germans were not deported:
  • anti-fascists
  • persons crucial for industries
  • those married with ethnic Czechs
Now, did the Israelis give such a courtesy to the Arabs of Palestine? Did Israel NOT expel Arabs who refused to fight against Israel, who were friends with the Jews?
 
Thunder said:
Jabotinksy was compared to fascists, back in his day.
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But what he says is exactly what Bibi, Begin, and Sharon think and did/do. He also outlined exactly what happened, and why. While there was some unrealistic idealism about Israel's creation and existence by other influential zionsists, what it has come down to is exactly what Jabotinsky foretold, for the reasons he gave, and that is exactly what is dominating Israeli politics now. The Palestinians were not going to give up without a fight, the only way to deal with that is to crush them, the words that Bibi used on the tape. As he said, that's what everyone else would do in the same situation.
 
a_unique_person said:
The Palestinians were not going to give up without a fight, the only way to deal with that is to crush them, the words that Bibi used on the tape. As he said, that's what everyone else would do in the same situation.
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whats this got to do with the expulsion and exile of 750,000 Arabs?
 
Thunder said:
whats this got to do with the expulsion and exile of 750,000 Arabs?
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I'm just responding to Virus' claims that the Palestinians got what they deserved because they started the war. The Zionists made sure they were ready for a war before they declared independence, for reasons that were entirely obvious, history shows that people in a similar situation will respond with violence.
 
comparing the lost lands of the German/Prussian Empire, to the West Bank and the Golan, is a biiiiiiiiiit of a stretch.
 
a_unique_person said:
I'm just responding to Virus' claims that the Palestinians got what they deserved because they started the war.
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I didn't say the Palestinians started it, I said the Arab states started it. And I never said they deserved it. I said that since the Arab states were responsible for starting the war that caused the refugee problem, then they should accept a large chunk of the responsibility for compensation and resettlement. They simply fobbed the whole issue off onto Israel and claimed to be in favor of a partition plan they rejected in the first place.
 
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Palestinians were previously Jordanians and Egyptians. Those states started the 1967 war that lead to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza strip. If they hadn't started that, the Palestinians wouldn't be occupied.
 
allanb said:
It is easy to say that Israel has the right to exist, but where? I think its right to establish itself in Palestine is exactly as good as its right to establish itself in (for example) one of the American states, or a county in the UK.

If Israel established a nation in Massachusetts or Yorkshire, building settlements wherever it wanted to, and asserting the right of border controls against the surrounding natives, how do you think the displaced locals would react? Don't you think it is just possible that they would use violent means to get their country back? Should we advise them to "forget about the 'disaster' already and move on"?

PS: On reflection, maybe New Hampshire would have been a better example than Massachusetts. The state slogan of NH, if I remember correctly, is "live free, or die" - which could well be adopted by the citizens of Gaza.
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The wrong assumption here is that Zionists just showed up and started kicking people out to make room for themselves. That's not supported by the evidence, and it's not normally what happens when one population migrates to another region.

The truth is Zionists purchased the lands to build their communities. Nobody was "displaced" any more than you displace anyone when you buy a home. Modern Israel is both Jewish and Arab, and it was understood it would be that way from the very beginning, as is evidenced by these quotes from prominent Zionists and foundational documents:


From the Balfour Declaration:

"Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

"We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption — proven throughout all our activity in the Land — that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs."

David Ben-Gurion, first Prime Minister of Israel

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion


"WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions."

THE DECLARATION OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace Pro...claration of Establishment of State of Israel
 
Thunder said:
once the War of Independence started, they took no time to start doing just that.
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Wrong again. War started after the UN resolution in Nov. 1947. The Jewish forces adopted a defensive strategy hoping that the Arab attacks would diminish. Only when it was clear that this strategy is not working they have started to attack. That happened in the end of March 1948. A good few months after the start of hostilities.
 
still, the Haganah and other irregular forces did indeed force hundreds of thousands of Arab civilians from Palestine.
 
Thunder said:
still, the Haganah and other irregular forces did indeed force hundreds of thousands of Arab civilians from Palestine.
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If you mean actively force out, then they did force out 100000-15000 according to estimates I have seen. This out of the 750000 Palestinian refugees. This happened after the Arab side started a civil war, and then a war between armies.

Anyway, I take it that you admit that your previous post was factually wrong. (You made no attempt to defend your claim.)
 
Doctor Evil said:
If you mean actively force out, then they did force out 100000-15000 according to estimates I have seen. This out of the 750000 Palestinian refugees. This happened after the Arab side started a civil war, and then a war between armies.
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as there is no agreement between the Israelis and the Arabs as to how mnay were forced out and how many left by choice, I say we just split it 50/50.

400,000 left on their own accord...and 400,000 were forced out by the Zionist military and irregular forces.
 
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