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[BigAl]

Where would your dynamic burning fuel stop moving? It's not some shockwave because a shockwave wouldn't transport much material I guess.

Why don't you stop imagining what happened and learn instead.

Gas and gas vapor was noticed the entire height of the towers.

 

[Toke]

I recall some report of fuel smell in the basement, as well as destroyed drywall and a tipped over 25ton* hydraulic press.


*Pressing capability, not weight.

 

[Toke]

Yup and related to thermobaric munitions. A few PSI spread over entire walls does lots of damage dot are useless against steel beams.

This is my favorite video of the effects of a vapor-air explosion 60 sec.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cQOUuJ1DWI

I saw a similar video on a recent smoke diving course, it was emphasised that is were (fortunately) a rare occurrence in normal fires.

And yes, a few psi for several seconds will leave columns intact, while removing walls.

 

[achimspok]

Jet fuel vapor was reported the entire height of the towers and burn injuries support those reports.

The smell was reported over entire lower Manhattan but lower Manhattan did not explode. Even the skylobby 78 did not explode but strangely enough floor 21. Am I right that neither #7 nor #6 had doors at 21? #50 had doors on all floors. So why 21? Why the fuel had chosen 21 and to destroy the firefighter communication system and the security check for the MER floors including the roof access? ...some very fanatic - sorry dynamic - fuel?

 

[bill smith]

I recall some report of fuel smell in the basement, as well as destroyed drywall and a tipped over 25ton* hydraulic press.


*Pressing capability, not weight.

Yeah.. I can remember some of that. In fact I have a little of a quote from somebody...

''...There was nothing there but rubble. We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!”


'' My God can you imagine that Mabel ?


lol

 

[DGM]

The smell was reported over entire lower Manhattan but lower Manhattan did not explode. Even the skylobby 78 did not explode but strangely enough floor 21. Am I right that neither #7 nor #6 had doors at 21? #50 had doors on all floors. So why 21? Why the fuel had chosen 21 and to destroy the firefighter communication system and the security check for the MER floors including the roof access? ...some very fanatic - sorry dynamic - fuel?

"Roof access"? Please explain how the planes had anything to do with the lack of access to the roof?

 

[BigAl]

The smell was reported over entire lower Manhattan but lower Manhattan did not explode. Even the skylobby 78 did not explode but strangely enough floor 21. Am I right that neither #7 nor #6 had doors at 21? #50 had doors on all floors. So why 21? Why the fuel had chosen 21 and to destroy the firefighter communication system and the security check for the MER floors including the roof access? ...some very fanatic - sorry dynamic - fuel?

Deal with reality. Don't try to impose your "must" and "can't" on what you believe, incorrectly, what happened.

 

[Toke]

Yeah.. I can remember some of that. In fact I have a little of a quote from somebody...

''...There was nothing there but rubble. We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!”
'' My God can you imagine that Mabel ?
lol

And again you miss the point about a 2-300 pound contraption with a hand pump able to deliver 50 ton of pressure for removing e.g. a bearing from an electric motor shaft.
What a surprise.

 

[bill smith]

And again you miss the point about a 2-300 pound contraption with a hand pump able to deliver 50 ton of pressure for removing e.g. a bearing from an electric motor shaft.
What a surprise.

I just think some of their material was so cheesy that you have to laugh..lol


I think most viewers would have pictured a massive 50-ton machine of some kind being destroyed like so much tinfoil ... as was the clear intention. People would rarely have thought of a machine not much bigger or heavier than their fridge or washing machine .

Read it again..This was on TV..

''...There was nothing there but rubble. We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!”

 

[achimspok]

... but in flight simulators, where they had lots of time to practice. Both had commercial pilot licenses, meaning they had used at least flight school's 737 simulators.

And, well, the B-25 Mitchell that impacted the Empire State Building did so without even pretending! It must not be that hard

On Saturday, 28 July 1945, at 0940 (while flying in thick fog), a USAAF B-25D crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building.
Cruise speed: 230 mph (200 kn, 370 km/h)

I do not cite Macky.

Instead let's pick one of the lucky guys:

September 1996
While in Oakland, he enrolled at the Sierra Academy of Aeronautics. He attended a 30-minute class on Sept. 8 and never came back. Dan Shaffer, the academy's vice president for flight operations, speculated that Hanjour was intimidated by the school's two-year training regimen and $35,000 price tag.

October 1996-December 1997: Hani Hanjour Twice Attends Scottsdale Flight School
In late 1996, hijacker Hani Hanjour attends CRM Airline Training Center in Scottsdale, Arizona for three months. This is normally adequate time to earn a private pilot’s certificate, but Hanjour fails to accomplish this. [Los Angeles Times, 9/27/2001] Duncan Hastie, the school’s owner, finds Hanjour a “weak student” who is “wasting our resources.” According to Hastie, “He was not able to fly solo in a small plane, which is equivalent to getting out of a parking space [in a car] and stopping.” Hanjour returns to CRM in December 1997 with two friends: Bandar Al Hazmi, a Saudi like Hanjour, and Rayed Abdullah of Qatar. (There apparently is no family relationship between Bandar Al Hazmi and the two Alhazmi 9/11 hijackers.) Hanjour takes about three lessons, but still fails to complete the coursework necessary for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft. Subsequently, he phones the school about twice per year requesting more lessons, but, according to Hastie, “We didn’t want him back at our school because he was not serious about becoming a good pilot.” The final time Hanjour calls, in 2000, he requests training on a Boeing 757: the kind of plane he is alleged to have flown into the Pentagon on 9/11.

1998: Hani Hanjour Attends Two More Arizona Flight Schools
In January 1998, future 9/11 hijacker Hani Hanjour and his friend Bandar Al Hazmi, who are now renting an apartment together in Phoenix, Arizona, train together at Arizona Aviation flight school. Hanjour supposedly receives his commercial pilot rating while there. [US Congress, 9/26/2002] Later in 1998, Hanjour joins the simulator club at Sawyer School of Aviation in Phoenix. According to the Washington Post, Sawyer is “known locally as a flight school of last resort.” Wes Fults, the manager of the flight simulator, says Hanjour has “only the barest understanding what the instruments were there to do.” After using the simulator four or five times, Hanjour disappears from the school. [Washington Post, 10/15/2001]

April 15, 1999: Hanjour Gets Pilot’s License despite Dubious Skills
When Hani Hanjour attended flight schools between 1996 and 1998 he was found to be a “weak student” who “was wasting our resources” (see October 1996-December 1997), and when he tried using a flight simulator, “He had only the barest understanding what the instruments were there to do.” (see 1998) Yet, on this day, he is certified as a multi-engine commercial pilot by Daryl Strong in Tempe, Arizona. Strong is one of many private examiners independently contracted with the FAA. A spokesperson for the FAA’s workers union will later complain that contractors like Strong “receive between $200 and $300 for each flight check. If they get a reputation for being tough, they won’t get any business.” Hanjour’s new license allows him to begin passenger jet training at other flight schools, despite having limited flying skills and an extremely poor grasp of English. [Federal Aviation Administration, 4/25/2002; Government Executive, 6/13/2002; Associated Press, 6/13/2002] At the next flight school Hanjour will attend in early 2001, [big]the staff will be so appalled at his lack of skills that they will repeatedly contact the FAA and ask them to investigate how he got a pilot’s license[/big] (see January-February 2001). After 9/11, the FBI will appear to investigate how Hanjour got his license and question and polygraph the instructor who signed off on his flying skills. The Washington Post will note that, since Hanjour’s pilot skills were so bad, the issue of how he was able to get a license “remains a lingering question that FAA officials refuse to discuss.” [Washington Post, 10/15/2001; CBS News, 5/10/2002] After gaining the license, Hanjour apparently returns to the Middle East. He will arrive back in the US in December 2000 (see (Early 2000-November 2000) and December 8, 2000).

January-February 2001: Flight School’s Repeated Warnings About Hijacker Hanjour Ignored by FAA
In January 2001, the Arizona flight school JetTech alerts the FAA about hijacker Hani Hanjour. No one at the school suspects Hanjour of terrorist intent, but they tell the FAA he lacks both the English and flying skills necessary for the commercial pilot’s license he has already obtained. For instance, he had taken classes at the University of Arizona but failed his English classes with a 0.26 grade point average. A JetTech flight school manager “couldn’t believe he had a commercial license of any kind with the skills that he had.” A former employee says, “I’m still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon. He could not fly at all.” They also note he is an exceptionally poor student who does not seem to care about passing his courses. [New York Times, 5/4/2002; CBS News, 5/10/2002] An FAA official named John Anthony actually sits next to Hanjour in class and observes his skills. He suggests the use of a translator to help Hanjour pass, but the flight school points out that goes “against the rules that require a pilot to be able to write and speak English fluently before they even get their license.” [Associated Press, 5/10/2002] The FAA verifies that Hanjour’s 1999 pilot’s license is legitimate (see April 15, 1999), but takes no other action. However, his license should have been rejected because it had already expired in late 1999 when he failed to take a manadatory medical test. [Associated Press, 9/15/2001; CBS News, 5/10/2002] An Arizona FAA inspector later says, “There should have been a stop right then and there.” He will claim that federal law would have required Hanjour to be re-examined. [Associated Press, 6/13/2002] In February, Hanjour begins advanced simulator training, “a far more complicated task than he had faced in earning a commercial license.” [New York Times, 6/19/2002] The flight school again alerts the FAA about this and gives a total of five alerts about Hanjour, but no further action on him is taken. The FBI is not told about Hanjour. [CBS News, 5/10/2002] Ironically, in July 2001, Arizona FBI agent Ken Williams will recommend in a memo that the FBI liaison with local flight schools and keep track of suspicious activity by Middle Eastern students (see July 10, 2001).

June 19, 2001: Hanjour Fails Night Flying Test
Hani Hanjour attempts to obtain pilot’s certification to fly at night, but is unsuccessful as he fails the test. [US District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, Alexandria Division, 7/31/2006, pp. 67 pdf file]

 

[beachnut]

Probably yes. ...at a certain point in time. ...

No remote control. These were stock jets silly! Try reality next time you waste 8 years spewing lies.

Because of the special features of the attacks. Not one of the planes was "pointed at" you know? ...but hit with substantial certainty - not to use the word precision. All of these planes flew far over VNE! No muslim hijacker would endanger his mission by endanger his bomb. No muslim hijacker could have known about radar holes and war games. Hani wouldn't circle, he would point at, right?.

Ok, Chomsky - Not on topic; BUT
There are no RADAR holes, you are telling a lie.
No war games interfered with anything, war games would have more experience and more personnel on duty, you are being silly and making up a moronic fantasy. Sorry, Hani had to circle because doing a 360 turn is the only way to loose altitude and be on course for the Pentagon after he messed up and failed to descend from altitude; You are not much of a pilot are you!!?? Vne, you don't understand flying, they were over Vmo for how long super researcher who believes insane delusions? Hani was only over Vmo for seconds; I have flown my Boeing jet over Vmo for seconds; it was ready to go faster at 70 feet MSL. I flew Boeing jets since 1976; what have you done to understand the truth as you spew idiotic poppycock!? Flight 11 was not over max dive speed! LOL, you have no clue! Flight 175 was over Vmo and dive speed for a short period. A fellow Boeing pilot flew his large (300,000 pound class) Boeing jet over Vmo at low attitude for minutes and only pulled off some skin under the leading edge of the wing. Boeing jets can get up to .9 to .95 MACH; the only reason there are speed limits low is due to the pressure, thicker air, can damage the aircraft. The only limit to the jets used to kill on 911 was the ability of the engine to function under the high speeds at High Q; ask a jet engine engineer to explain before you go spread more idiotic lies.

The terrorists you attempt to apologize for took credit for their deed; you are trying to blame who? lol, you have no flight knowledge; bet you are void of physics too. BTW, all the planes that flew over Vmo on 911 crashed. And your point is what about terrorists with full throttle for the last 20 seconds?

...to blame someone! No one would buy the story without IMAGES of the ENEMY..

Real passports, darn, and their DNA was real too. Why can't you figure out the easy stuff after 8 years?

Dead. ...in the buildings..

The only thing you have right about 911?

Not just about the black boxes. ...about everything. About baggage, about DNA, about serial numbers simply about everything left. .

We have DNA of the terrorists you are tying to say never existed. Sad you get everything wrong about 911 as you spew off topic nonsense.

That's what they did. ...at least it seems so. Have you heard about the "AA11" black boxes or the "UA175" black boxes? Or the serial number of the "AA77" FDR? Or Warren Stutts second FOIA request regarding the FDR? I still haven't check it but I wonder why all data in the new readout are displaced regarding to the subframe counter. I wonder about the statement of "4-8 additional seconds" due to the uncompleted dataframe. The uncompleted dataframe contains max 4 seconds. I wonder about the total lack of warnings in the first FDR. Now we have at least GroundProximity for 17 seconds and Overspeed for the last 24 seconds. So it seems everything gets better and better.

There are people they never found, and tons of other stuff never found. The Black Boxes are not made to be in collapsing buildings, the two tallest buildings in NYC at one time. Are they?

Sorry the data in the new readout is not displaced! The raw FDR for Flt 77 was always there, it has to be decoded. There is no offset unless the programmer messed up on the data. The decode by p4t dolts was not properly lined up, and had one less second than the NTSB decode. Warren's decode matches exactly the NTSB, and p4t decode and has up to impact. Warren found the missing seconds, but they were never missing, they were not decoded.

Why does the FBI need the black boxes to solve the terrorist's plot? Wake up, the dolt terrorists left a trail easier than McVeigh. Wake up, you have had 8 years to figure out 911, something the Passengers on Flight 93 did in minutes! lol, you can't figure out 911 given the answers. Sad, and off topic.

LOL, Hani became a pilot; he persisted because he wanted to kill Americans for UBL. Your are off topic!

 

[Toke]

I just think some of their material was so cheesy that you have to laugh..lol


I think most viewers would have pictured a massive 50-ton machine of some kind being destroyed like so much tinfoil ... as was the clear intention. People would rarely have thought of a machine not much bigger or heavier than their fridge or washing machine .

Read it again..This was on TV..

''...There was nothing there but rubble. We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!”

I take it that you don't believe in this silly truther stuff yourself.

 

[bill smith]

I take it that you don't believe in this silly truther stuff yourself.

Why would yu take that ?

 

[beachnut]

I just think some of their material was so cheesy that you have to laugh..lol


I think most viewers would have pictured a massive 50-ton machine of some kind being destroyed like so much tinfoil ... as was the clear intention. People would rarely have thought of a machine not much bigger or heavier than their fridge or washing machine .

Read it again..This was on TV..

''...There was nothing there but rubble. We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!”

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-H6233-Ton-Shop-Press/dp/B0007D2YJU

50 ton press would weigh 686 pounds or so. The idiots who believe in 911 truth movement lies are dumb and gullible; for some it is short term, for others it is their destiny.

 

[achimspok]

Here's a video that debunks the nonsense. The demonstration comes near the end.

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1089925/Pentagon_Attack_Analysis_Zembla

Well, it debunks that "nonsense" like brainwashers always debunk nonsense.
let's see:

1) the landscape has neither buildings nor obstacles nor a topography

2) Mr. Ruigrok from the National Aerospace Lab is a pilot of small planes and can use the Labs flight simulator 3 times a day if he want.

3) The 2nd try of the experienced flightsim user puts the cockpit below the ground

4) The filmmaker asks the wrong question

Let's say, Hani Hanjour had very limited experience at a flight simulator and wasn't a pilot. He had to fly through a very difficult terrain.

...but you may believe what you've been told if you feel better with it.

 

[achimspok]

I think all this talk about fuel is just trying to...hell I don't know. I really can't see why this matters at all.

...because the basement exploded and I cannot find any witness who survived at B2 or B3, can you?
...because people at the lobby where blown out of the window.
...because the entire west side was destroyed but the revolving door to the Marriott opposite to the express shafts was intact. Most of the witnesses on the south side used that exit.
...because the elevator opposite to #50 had two doors (inside the core and outside the core). These doors were intact but the marble in the west fell from the wall.

How ignorant is possible?

 

[TheRedWorm]

Why does any of that matter? Are you contending that there were bombs in these areas?

 

[BigAl]

...because the basement exploded and I cannot find any witness who survived at B2 or B3, can you?
...because people at the lobby where blown out of the window.
...because the entire west side was destroyed but the revolving door to the Marriott opposite to the express shafts was intact. Most of the witnesses on the south side used that exit.
...because the elevator opposite to #50 had two doors (inside the core and outside the core). These doors were intact but the marble in the west fell from the wall.

How ignorant is possible?

What's your point? The towers swayed several feet when hit and that broke lots of stuff. Nobody heard anything consistent with man-made demolition explosions.

 

[achimspok]

Pound for pound, jet fuel turned to vapor is a more powerful explosive than TNT or any of the others.

So if only one gallon of the 6,000 gallons made it down to the basement. At 6 pounds per gallon, that's the equal of lots of TNT.

What a mega nonsense! At least 5000gal exploded pretty visible. The tower was still there. 3psi overpressure means 0.2bar. Thats the pressure you would feel when diving 2 meters under water.

Why is that? Because ...

... explosives usually have a lower energy density than other fuels – gas or kerosene has about 10 times the energy density of TNT, while even ordinary wood has about 4 times as much. What sets explosives apart from fuel is that they can release their energy quickly without the help of much of a devices, and typically contain their own oxygen – if you’re willing to make a suitable oxygen-filled container, you can actually make a huge explosions using coal dust, or even dried wheat flour.

http://hypography.com/forums/chemistry/9302-how-powerful-are-explosives.html

(I don't want to cite Macky.)

 

[achimspok]

Why does any of that matter? Are you contending that there were bombs in these areas?

Start thinking!