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Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

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The point is, that there is less than enough food allowed into Gaza now to maintain the health of people. There is plenty of food outside Gaza, in Israel itself, but it is not allowed in. The commandos weren't boarding to search the ships for weapons and allow them on their way, but to prevent the food from reaching Gaza at all.
And where's the evidence for this, in the face of 15,000 tons of supplies coming into Gaza weekly? Where's your evidence of Gazans starving? Did you not see the guarantee from Israel that all humanitarian supplies would go to Gaza if the ships landed in another port?

And yet you still do not directly answer the question.
 
What? Every source I've seen shows over 1,000 Israelis killed by Palestineans (okay, not all from Gaza, but still) since 2000. Where's your source? 22 is a poor attempt at humour.

the 22 is the number of Israeli died do to the rockets launched into Israel.
 
I mentioned "weapons" not just rockets. But even so, you think 22 deaths are acceptable?

them heaving weappons in their country is not other nations business.
and to prevent them from entering Israel there is a huge wall and checkpoints etc.

22 deaths is not acceptable, but is it acceptable to have a blockade on 1.5 million people, over it?

but in other things we accept far higher death rates.
 
them heaving weappons in their country is not other nations business.
and to prevent them from entering Israel there is a huge wall and checkpoints etc.

22 deaths is not acceptable, but is it acceptable to have a blockade on 1.5 million people, over it?

but in other things we accept far higher death rates.
Sigh. The wall is in the West bank. look, go back, do a little research and don't embarrass yourself any further.
 
Sigh. The wall is in the West bank. look, go back, do a little research and don't embarrass yourself any further.

i spoke about Palestine in general, and there are also checkpoints at the Gazan border :rolleyes:
 
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DC said:
22 deaths is not acceptable, but is it acceptable to have a blockade on 1.5 million people, over it?

Yes, especially when the Palestinians have voted for Hamas as their leaders.
Face the consequences of having terrorists as your leaders.
As an Israeli, I face the consequences of good and bad judgements and acts of my government even though I had nothing to do directly with those judgements and acts.
 
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Yes, especially when the Palestinians have voted for Hamas as their leaders.
Face the consequences of having your leaders a terrorist group.
As an Israeli, I face the consequences of good and bad judgements and acts of my government even though I had nothing to do directly with those judgements and acts.

that is your oppinion, many many others disagree even the UN.
 
Hmm, swedish professor of religion history, Mattias Gardell, was on the Mavi Marmara, and swedish author Henning Mankell was on the Sofia. Their reports after returning home makes them look very naive, surprised and devestated. Laser-sights, troopers shooting from on high before boarding et al. Mmm, what?
Gardell also said they took a couple of soldiers since the commandos silent-boat boarding-party went away (the boats were fended off with firehoses) and they were left on board. The soldiers had weapons, which allegedly were thrown in the sea. So, troops caught on board has a tendency to 'up' the urgency for the other commandos.
 
that is your oppinion, many many others disagree even the UN.

I would love to hear your solution the the Israel/Gaza/weapons smuggling situation and how to avoid it.
 
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I would love to hear your solution the the Israel/Gaza/weapons smuggling situation and how to avoid it.

Personally I don't think Israel can stop it, save for limiting it here and there. It's not going to stop, short of a nuke over Gaza. People are the most dangerous and desperate when they have little else but blood to give, especially in the gun-powder barrel that is the Middle-East/Asia Minor.
 
I would love to hear your solution the the Israel/Gaza/weapons smuggling situation and how to avoid it.

the problems is the rockets that are used to fire at Israel, them heaving weappons is not your business.
i would try it without a bloackade that lets 1.5 million suffer and so make the situation even worse by radicalizing them even further.

also would i actually stopp the provocations on Israels side, like settlements etc.
 
And where's the evidence for this, in the face of 15,000 tons of supplies coming into Gaza weekly? Where's your evidence of Gazans starving? Did you not see the guarantee from Israel that all humanitarian supplies would go to Gaza if the ships landed in another port?

And yet you still do not directly answer the question.

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/05/20105319333613851.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7766509.stm

The guarantee is worthless, when the long term effect is being felt.

I thought I answered your question. But there will be no resolution till there is a Palestinian state and the settlements stop, and even then, there will be bitterness and ill will for years to come, probably violence too. If you look at Ireland, the healing of time is very slow. Even the US has recognised the role of settlements in aggravating the situation, and repeatedly demanded they be stopped.
 
Hey... y'all know what would have been frakking hilarious?

If one of the ships in the Hamas smuggling fleet was named the Rachel Corrie and the Israelis sank it by dropping a bulldozer pushed out the back of a C-130 on it. :D
 
they had the intent to maim and/or kill those IDF soldiers who came aboard.

And as can clearly be seen in the videos linked to earlier, they did their best to dissuade the Israeli from entering the ships, but these persevered. They could just have, you know, not entered a ship filled with people with pipes and chains and scarves and stools.

Have you already seen the videos where the "peace" activists throw stun grenades at the Israeli soldiers?

So, again, it is okay for the war forces of Israel to throw stun grenades on people, but not the "war" activists?

Do you really think that the troops boarding that ship had such different orders than th troops boarding the other ships?
What possible strategic objective could that have?

Note: I think this sounds ludicrous as well, and far too conspiratorial and full of eagerness to paint the Israeli as diabolical, but two of the Swedes aboard the Mavi Marmara was on radio today and suggested that the Israeli knew that the Mavi Marmara had most of the communication equipment with which they were in constant contact with media in their home countries and their home organisations. They suggested that Israeli had planned to first cut off all communication between the aid convoys and the mainland, and also to make an example of one ship, to get the others to fall in line more easily. I have no idea if this makes sense in any way, though, and as I said, I find this to be a bit to cynical.

You right....the head takers are much better with swords!
Guess you havent bothered to see any video!
Your version dosent jive!

I have watched several videos, and also listened to several interviews with people who were actually aboard the ships. I have not yet seen any videos of what happened on the ship where the people who gave these interviews were, though. They were not on the Mavi Marmara, but on another ship. I am fully aware that the people of the Mavi Marmara did attack the Israeli soldiers, and the fact that they did so is beyond contempt, especially as I understand (again from what the people on the other ship said during interviews) that there was an understanding between all involved before they set out that only non-violent resistance methods such as the ones I described were to be used, should there be a confrontation with the Israeli.

Hasn't it already been established they were armed with paint-ball guns and were trained in non-lethal measures?

Which, as has also been established, is likely a great comfort to the families of the murdered.

Like, say, posting the videos from the incident and giving a statement of exactly what it says happened?

... which somehow paints the Israeli in nothing but happy, cuddly colours like some kind of light mauve and turquoise, whereas the peace activists are all evil, murderous colours like slate, dark teal, various shades of grey and, of course, blood red.

Yes. They did. As they were part of a blockade running flotilla giving support to a genocidal government, I have no problem with that.

By my beard, this is just getting worse and worse! Not only were they attempting to smuggle scarves into a strict "no-scarves" area and menacing Israeli soldiers with stools, they also brought with them journalists who, if they hadn't been stopped, might have filmed innocent Israeli kids to death!!!!

I thought it was impossible to become more converted to the Israeli side in this matter than I've been by these previous mind-boggling revelations, but this just shows that nature never ceases to amaze us. I will write a letter to the government immediately, imploring them to stop these journalists from running around filming things and taking notes. The cheek!

Sure. Let's assume that there's herds of unicorns prancing across the steppes of Asia while we're at it, just to keep the theme going.

So do I fit onto your list or not? You haven't (as far as I have read) responded in any way.

It's one of the most glaring failings of the American left that they've thrown in with the side most antithetical to our/their supposed ideals.

As I mentioned above, this is a problem with the global left, not just the American. If all people are equals -- as I believe they are and as I believe the left should have as one of its base premises -- then the death of an Israeli is as horrible as that of a Palestinian. That the left makes a difference between the two, assigning a higher value to the latter than to the former, is one of the most inexplicably stupid stances of the left.

That's rich. In order to show they have nothing to hide, they need to let the crew of the pro-Hamas propaganda fleet record and distribute their take on the matter? Pull the other one.

Yes, the empress forbids that someone who has a different opinion on what went on aboard those ships is allowed to film this and then publish the film. We should all just blindly trust the reports from one side, specifically the side that has murdered people and prevented the other side for retaining their evidence and equipment of their behaviour.
 
A former Australian Ambassador to Israel gives his view

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...-teeth-for-israels-friends-20100602-wzmv.html

Just what has Israel achieved in intercepting the Free Gaza Movement flotilla headed to Gaza? Will Hamas leaders now sue for peace on any terms? Will anti-Israeli recalcitrants in the region and beyond repent their misguided ways? Will hardliners in Iran make a blood oath to the world never to go down the nuclear weapons path?
We all know the answer.
This act of unbelievable stupidity is a gift to Israel's enemies. It is another kick in the teeth for Israel's diminishing number of friends.
It claims it wants to be a normal, respected member of the international community, but Israel, at least its current government under Benjamin Netanyahu, then behaves as a law unto itself.
 
Hey... y'all know what would have been frakking hilarious?

If one of the ships in the Hamas smuggling fleet was named the Rachel Corrie and the Israelis sank it by dropping a bulldozer pushed out the back of a C-130 on it. :D

yeah sinking ships and dead people are always good for a laugh, isnt it?
 
Pakistan flotilla witness says Israelis shot victims in cold blood

A Pakistani journalist who was captured during a naval attack on a Gaza—bound aid flotilla alleged Wednesday that Israeli soldiers were shooting people in cold blood.

Talat Hussain, one of the 124 people arriving in Jordan following their release by Israeli authorities, claimed that the commandos “shot people in the forehead.” “I witnessed myself the first Israeli assault on the ship. There was no weapon on the ship,” Mr. Hussain told Aaj news channel by phone from Jordan. “Scuffles broke out when Israelis tried to arrest people. After that people threw at the Israelis whatever they got hold of.

“Four people were shot in the forehead in front me. I witnessed four people dying,” Mr. Hussain, executive director and anchorman of Aaj Television, said.

He added that he would provide video of the whole episode and further details later on in his television programme.
 
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