Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[WildCat]

why ? its legal, Hamas is at war with Israel, they are not allowed to defend them self?

It would be perfectly acceptable under the LOAC for Hamas to blockade Israel.

Of course, Israel also has the right to put any ship attempting to do so on the bottom of the Mediteranean Sea.

how about we blockade Israel until they stop erecting illegal settlements?

I didn't know you spoke for the Swiss government, but sure why not? Send the whole Swiss Navy.

 

[WildCat]

Thanks for that considered legal opinion. Unfortunately though most other legal minds disagree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid#Legal_opinions_opposing_the_action

Wikipedia for a legal opinion!

 

[Thunder]

Of course, Israel also has the right to put any ship attempting to do so on the bottom of the Mediteranean Sea.

r u suggesting Israel should sink the next ship that dares to defy the Chosen Blockade? One is supposed to show up late Friday. Onboard, is an Irish Nobel Laureate.

shall I get you the number for the Israeli Navy?

 

[IDB87]

Hang on! In the first video -- in which the Israeli ships have not yet approached the Mavi Marmara

Actually the English speaking man in the video says that there are Israeli vessels (camera pans out and you can see smaller Israeli ships, around the size of the boat in the video I posted) around the MM, along with helicopters along the front of the ship. So I'm not sure why you are saying 'they [Israeli ships] have not yet approached-" when they are clearly visible in the video.

-- they say that stun grenades and smoke grenades were thrown onto the Mavi Marmara from the helicopters (though this cannot be seen in the video), and this does not constitute a first attack, but throwing them back at the Israeli does?

Yes, that is generally what units of riot police or SWAT teams do to control an area before putting their people in harms way. Since these activists were brandishing weapons, it was a logical tactic. Does this constitute 'first blood'? I don't think so, since stun grenades generally aren't used in a lethal way. When riots are broken up with tear gas and other means, does that justify using (or attempting to use) lethal force against the riot police?

Since there is no time stamp on either video, we can assume the boat in the video I posted is at least attempting to board (since they are using a hook to probably anchor their vessel before boarding [conjecture - can anyone verify exactly what that Israeli boat was trying to do?]) in support of the helicopters deploying commandos. The activists are resisting the boats boarding actions (or whatever it is that vessel is attempting) by throwing a box of plates, stun grenades (either their own or duds thrown by the Israelis) and brandishing weapons like pipes and metal chains (you can see the man spinning the chain like he's going to hit someone with it). It is how I picture a medieval siege to play out like.

I would have you note also that the step ladder or stool or whatever it is is actually never thrown. It may very well be that the person holding it was planning to do so, but he never actually does it in the video. Instead, he withdraws it out of sight. Does menacing someone with a stool actually constitute an attack?

They 'can' be deadly when thrown from a height. I did not say he -did- throw it. It does not constitute an attack, sure, but it displays motive and intent.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Wikipedia for a legal opinion!

Yeah, Israel is one of those areas where Wiki is slanted.

More in depth look from reuters.
http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-48994620100602

 

[Thunder]

Even so, it does not seem to suggest that the Ottoman rule suppressed religion or was anti-semitic.

I hardly think that tens of thousands of Jewish people would emigrate to an anti-semitic area where they couldn't practice their religion.

I understand that the first kibbutz was established during the Ottoman rule.

a good 30 years before the Ottomans lost control of Palestine. The First Aliyah did indeed take place during Muslim rule. I wonder why sooo many Jews would immigrate to a land that was soooo discriminatory towards Jews?

"The First Aliyah (also The Farmers' Aliyah) was the first modern widespread wave of Zionistaliyah. Jews who migrated to Palestine in this wave came mostly from Eastern Europe and from Yemen. This wave of aliyah began in 1881–82 and lasted until 1903.[1][2] An estimated 25,000[3]–35,000[4] Jews immigrated to Ottoman Syria during the First Aliyah. "

Oh look, tens of thousands MORE Jews immigrated to Muslim-ruled Palestine. How strange of all these Jews huh?

"The Second Aliyah was the most important and influential aliyah. It took place between 1904 and 1914, during which approximately 40,000 Jews immigrated into Ottoman Palestine, mostly from the Russian Empire[1], some from Yemen."

 

[Thunder]

Would you like to correct this statement to reflect what actually was used against the IDF boarders, or do you wish to make your first impression here as a dishonest liar?

I will. It appears that the Iranian regime armed these Nazi thugs, with advanced weaponry.

As we can see in the photographs, these Hamas-loving anti-Semites were armed with such technologically advanced marvels as:

wood sticks
wrenches
crow-bars
chains
tire-irons
plumbers wrenches

the list of deadly weapons of mass destruction...goes on and on.

Its a good thing the valiant warriors of Judaea prevented this deadly ship and its genocidal cargo, from reaching the coast. Had it gone a shore, hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent Jews, could have been killed. Oy vey.

 

[IDB87]

wood sticks
wrenches
crow-bars
chains
tire-irons
plumbers wrenches

All of which can be used to kill, or at the least severely hurt, a person.

Don't make light of a smack to the face with a crow-bar.

 

[DreadNiK]

I will. It appears that the Iranian regime armed these Nazi thugs, with advance weaponry.

As we can see in the photographs, these Hamas-loving anti-Semites were armed with such technologically advanced marvels as:

wood sticks
wrenches
crow-bars
chains
tire-irons
plumbers wrenches

the list of deadly weapons of mass destruction...goes on and on.

Its a good thing the valiant warriors of Judaea prevented this deadly ship and its genocidal cargo, from reaching the coast. Had it gone a shore, hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent Jews, could have been killed. Oy vey.

My god you're right. It is so clear now. I certainly wouldn't want a gun and permission to use it when being set upon by multiple attackers with that assortment of weapons. Why, a few blows to the head or face from some of those things would barely tickle...

 

[Thunder]

Takes real guts to take on well-trained and well-armed professional soldiers, with wood sticks and wrenches. These activists may have been wide-eyed, idealistic, and naive, but they were very brave.

 

[IDB87]

Takes real guts to take on well-trained and well-armed professional soldiers, with wood sticks and wrenches. These activists may have been wide-eyed, idealistic, and naive, but they were very brave.

Well-armed? No, they went in with paintball guns and tazers, not automatic weapons and frag grenades.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Well-armed? No, they went in with paintball guns and tazers, not automatic weapons and frag grenades.

The pistols may have been automatic.

 

[Thunder]

A semi-automatic pistol can kill a good 12 people in a good 20 seconds. Reload it quick, and you got 24 dead in less than a minute.

Its amazing how many people you can kill with a Desert Eagle or a Berreta. I'm sure Israelis know this alllllll too well.

 

[mortimer]

"if we let Iran send missiles to Gaza, Israel will be the target today...and Europe may be the target tomorrow".

how else would you paraphrase Bibi's remark?

"The international community cannot afford an Iranian port on the Mediterranean...The same countries that are criticizing us today, should know that they could be targeted tomorrow."

 

[Thunder]

"The international community cannot afford an Iranian port on the Mediterranean...The same countries that are criticizing us today, should know that they could be targeted tomorrow."

targeted by what?

by who?

give me a break. Israel has been playing this "our enemy may someday become your enemy" game for decades.

 

[mortimer]

targeted by what?

by who?

give me a break. Israel has been playing this "our enemy may someday become your enemy" game for decades.

By an Iranian presence in Gaza.

 

[fuelair]

My god you're right. It is so clear now. I certainly wouldn't want a gun and permission to use it when being set upon by multiple attackers with that assortment of weapons. Why, a few blows to the head or face from some of those things would barely tickle...

Wrenches, crowbars* and tire irons guarantee a first strike hit will almost certainly kill in head or neck and likely kill mid chest or xiphoid process. Arm or leg, fracture or break (angle/speed will determine). Chain of combat size (no greater than about 1.5 inch links, steel) would likely only kill around neck and jerked or pulled tight - but can facilitate bring-downs. I would shoot wielders of same without a thought.

*have other combat uses too.

 

[mortimer]

did you not......write this post???

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5992966#post5992966

hmmmm..

I did. So, am I to take it you have zero evidence that "Israel insanely claims that...Iranian missiles in Gaza will threaten Europe"? Care to retract that accusation?

 

[fuelair]

A semi-automatic pistol can kill a good 12 people in a good 20 seconds. Reload it quick, and you got 24 dead in less than a minute.

Its amazing how many people you can kill with a Desert Eagle or a Berreta. I'm sure Israelis know this alllllll too well.

I'm sure that could be done if they are not moving a lot and carefully lined up in the daytime with the shooter within 10 to 15 feet from them. Moving around, throwing things and in darkness, not so much.

If, by the by, you can shoot that well in the situation we seem to be discussing several governments have a high-paying job available for you.

I freely admit I am not nearly that good.

You do know, I hope, that comparing a Berreta and a Desert Eagle on this considering the difference in their primary calibers is not unlike the old apples/oranges thing I assume.

 

[JediKnight2.01]

and finally a picture of some of the weapons oboard Mavi Marmari

Most of the items in that picture look innocent to me. Tools are normal things to find aboard a ship and the knives look like they could be found in any kitchen, so unless they were in people's hands at the time of boarding I wouldn't make anyting of them. That one knife there looks like a decorative piece found in many collectible magazines.

It's hard to imagine any used for the clubs except planned violence. They look like they've been cut from useful tools for the purpose of making clubs. They may not be the most deadly thing there, but they look the most damning to me.