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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Bruce Fisher said:
If you mean slightly move your upper body then yes, you can say turn.

This is a small area we are talking about. Rudy was within inches of the door when he locked it.
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What's all this 'slightly' rubbish? Who locks a door with their feet pointing away from it and not even a familiar door (their own), but a strangers's door?

What's the size of the area, or the cottage got to do with it?
 
RoseMontague said:
I agree Bruce. Why in the world would the family not give the experts everything the defense team gave them to give to the experts?
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They control everything they give out. Hence why it's not all online. Hence why they have offered people access, with hefty restrictions and strings attached.
 
Fiona said:
That part is nonsense unless you do not think Scotland is part of the UK, sorry :).Trick or treating does seem to be american: but as I say the tradition is dying out here and so I have not seen that much. Guising was very strongly part of Halloween here until quite recently and it always has been so far as I know
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Fair enough. I didn't realise that "guising" was actively going on in Scotland (and maybe Ireland too) before that. I do know that it was unheard-of in central and southern England - so I was unnecessarily Anglo-centric in my statement here.

However, while I was wrong about certain parts of the UK, I'm still as confident that these sorts of festivities absolutely DID NOT go on in continental Europe - especially southern Catholic countries - until well into the second half of the 20th Century.

And in any case, all of this is just background to the main point that I wanted to make: costume-wearing, trick-or-treating and general partying on 31st October to celebrate Halloween is now most certainly a part of the Italian cultural fabric, at least among the under-40s. I'm not suggesting that ALL Italians in this age bracket behave in this way on Halloween, but a significant minority of them do (amongst whom, I'd argue, college students form a sizeable number). And those who DO behave this way on October 31st do NOT behave in this way on 1st or 2nd November.
 
Fulcanelli said:
No!
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What do you mean no? You have no idea where is right foot was. There was no blood on that shoe.

Okay, my son has finally gotten out of bed. I will see if I can make a little video of this motion.

The truth is, the shoe prints cannot prove this point one way or the other. The prints do show that is was possible for Guede to lock the door.
 
Fiona said:
Perhaps, RoseMontague: but the application for an independent review is a funny way of going about it. It seems to me that the more natural route to deal with direct defiance of a court order is to challenge that in court and force compliance: then the evidence can be given to whichever experts the defence chooses to employ. I can see no logical reason for asking for an indpendent review when this route is available: and none for delaying the action until the appeal. Maybe I am missing something, though
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No,
You are on the right track. I believe this was another mistake the defense team made in this case. Frank had a post about this day in court when that motion was denied that mentioned some missing DNA information if I am remembering correctly. To me it sounded like the defense was over confident.
 
Fulcanelli said:
They control everything they give out. Hence why it's not all online. Hence why they have offered people access, with hefty restrictions and strings attached.
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You have absolutely no idea about anything the family does. You despise Amanda's family for some personal reason that you should honestly try and deal with. It is not healthy behavior. Please do no insinuate that you have any clue about how Amanda's family handles anything.

You honestly don't like baseball? Now I know I don't like you. I was on the fence about our friendship before the baseball comment. The baseball comment sealed the deal.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
What do you mean no? You have no idea where is right foot was. There was no blood on that shoe.

Okay, my son has finally gotten out of bed. I will see if I can make a little video of this motion.

The truth is, the shoe prints cannot prove this point one way or the other. The prints do show that is was possible for Guede to lock the door.
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Oh dear. There's a 'reason' why the cottage was referred to as 'an orgy of right feet'.

I look forward to the video. Some light entertainment would be good.
 
Fulcanelli said:
What's all this 'slightly' rubbish? Who locks a door with their feet pointing away from it and not even a familiar door (their own), but a strangers's door?

What's the size of the area, or the cottage got to do with it?
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Rudy's feet were not pointing away from the door. Only one of them was.

Do you really react differently to doors that you have not encountered before? Is it relevant that it was a "stranger's" door?
 
Bruce Fisher said:
You have absolutely no idea about anything the family does. You despise Amanda's family for some personal reason that you should honestly try and deal with. It is not healthy behavior. Please do no insinuate that you have any clue about how Amanda's family handles anything.

You honestly don't like baseball? Now I know I don't like you. I was on the fence about our friendship before the baseball comment. The baseball comment sealed the deal.
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I despise the campaign, the smears and the lies, 'that's' what I despise. While it's true the family have no class, I don't despise them for that or at all. I just don't respect them either.
 
Fulcanelli said:
They control everything they give out. Hence why it's not all online. Hence why they have offered people access, with hefty restrictions and strings attached.
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So, the family doesn't want the experts to have information that could very well help their cause?
 
Fulcanelli said:
The whole 'period' is a holiday and is all connected. A bit like our Christmas holidays. And please, you don't even live in Italy, so stop styling yourself as some sort of expert, it's getting rather irritating.
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"Some sort of expert"......"rather irritating"............oh the irony!

So does Fulcanelli work in the Italian justice system, know the victim or her family personally, know any of the convicted parties or their families personally, or know any of the police or legal staff involved in the case personally? Cos he sure seems to be a self-appointed "expert" on these sorts of things. And when we get on to the subject of "irritating", well.........

Is it necessary to live in Italy to understand Catholic culture and its relationship to secular life in these sorts of countries? Find an Italian under the age of 40 and ask them about what I've written, if you like. They will essentially confirm what I've said. Ask some of the very many Italian students that were out celebrating Halloween in Italian bars in the Italian city of Perugia (alongside foreign students) on October 31st 2007. They'll essentially confirm what I've said.

And, in the meantime, let's all stop pontificating about who's an expert on this case, and who's not. The ONLY true experts on this case are those who are DIRECTLY involved in it. The rest of us are ALL semi-informed speculators.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
Rudy's feet were not pointing away from the door. Only one of them was.

Do you really react differently to doors that you have not encountered before? Is it relevant that it was a "stranger's" door?
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What? I don't know about you, but when I walk I step on one foot at a time, so at any one time, there's only ever going to be one foot pointing in a direction (from a ground contact perspective).

I do and I think most people also, have to become used to using a door, lock and key they are not used to. In my home when it first became my home, the front door, lock and key were unusual to me and I was a little cack-handed with it. It is now second nature, due to use and familiarity with the passage of time.
 
Odeed said:
I am trying to determine where the electropherograms originated from, if they were produced by the authors for the letter, then why the need for more data.
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They were produced by the authors. They are not the originals supplied by Dr Stefanoni.
 
Matthew Best said:
That's fascinating, but Perugia is not in Scotland, or Northern England, or Ireland. :rolleyes:
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Well quite. My mentioning of howthe practice of celebrating Halloween festivities might have arrived in Perugia was totally peripheral to my actual argument that Halloween IS celebrated in Perugia these days by a significant minority of the town's younger population (as well, of course, as by many of the town's foreign students).

I understand why people would want to call me out on a specific area of my post that I got a bit wrong (i.e. the prior existence of "guising" in Scotland and Northern England before the US re-spread the whole dressing-up-trick-or-treat activities throughout the whole UK, and thence continental Europe). And that mistake of mine warranted correction, which I've done.

But quite why people would then want to suggest by extension that what I was actually trying to ARGUE - that Halloween is celebrated by quite a few Italians these days - is somehow contradicted by this error leaves me a bit bemused.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
You honestly don't like baseball? Now I know I don't like you. I was on the fence about our friendship before the baseball comment. The baseball comment sealed the deal.
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Why would I like baseball, I'm an Englishman?!

And I don't dislike it. I just don't like it. It holds as much interest for me as cricket. It's all just a waffly excuse into stretching the life time of cucumber sandwiches that could be eaten in half an hour, into lasting a day.
 
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Applied Biosystems

odeed said:
Above you say "These files are the basis for creating the DNA electropherograms, such as the one reproduced in the open letter", why would they need to request new data if they can already reproduce the DNA electropherograms from the data, also if the electropherograms in the open letter are from the Italian source, why are the headings in English and not Italian?
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The headings might be in English because the manufacturer of the instruments is Applied Biosystems, IIRC. The scientists I listed do not have the raw data and cannot reprocess it or analyze it in the way that they would like. If you searched this thread with my username and "Krane" as a search term, you should find an example of how this can be useful.
 
Fiona said:
Stewart Home, posting at PMF, does not agree with LondonJohn's assertion. It is possible to read his post in a way which denies his claim, so it is not definitive, but for what it is worth this is what he says (writing in response to somethink on Perugia Shock, I gather)



http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=121&p=7517&hilit=Curatolo+masks#p7517

To me this states quite clearly that Stewart Home was in Perugia on Nov 1st, 2007 and that there were "tons of kids around that night in masks and costumes, still"
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Is the key word here not the word "still"? Does that word not imply that these masks and costumes were a hangover in some way from the night before? And if so, why would people still be wearing masks and costumes from the previous might's festivities, and/or why would they have put them on again?

And where were all these kids in masks and costumes going on the night of the 1st November? After all, we know that on the 31st October the kids in masks/costumes were mostly going to Halloween parties in the local bars (or perhaps in people's houses). Were there also Halloween parties on 1st November? I don't think so. And they almost certainly wouldn't have been going to "All Saints' Day" parties.

Maybe the PMF "man on the ground" COULD be coloured in some way in his recollection......? However, if there's truly independent (and reliable) verification that significant numbers of people were indeed walking round Perugia on the evening of 1st November wearing masks and costumes, then I will happily apologise, correct and retract.......
 
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