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Noah's Ark found?

154 said:
Imagine if, prior to the cataclysmic changes of the earth and environment of the Flood,
the atmosphere was much more of a heavy vapor canopy, of a greater pressure and shielded much more of the uv rays.
Earth could have essentially been a big hyperbaric chamber.
Climate could be generally consistent and uniform globally.
Large, thick vegetation could have grown at the poles.
Plants and animals could have gotten significantly larger.
Life expectancies could have been much longer.
A lot of things could have been seriously different.
Click to expand...

And if my Aunty had balls she would be my Uncle.

You are aware that all the evidence contradicts your scenario, aren't you?
 
154 said:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. "

..does not mean Jesus has feathers.

Some is literal. Some is figurative. Some is allegory. Some is metaphor.

Great question... 20 times... are you happy now?

Of course not.
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Yes, delriiously happy. Why did it take you so long to answer?
Now: is the ark story literal?
 
154 said:
the atmosphere was much more of a heavy vapor canopy, of a greater pressure and shielded much more of the uv rays.
Earth could have essentially been a big hyperbaric chamber.
Climate could be generally consistent and uniform globally.
Large, thick vegetation could have grown at the poles.
Plants and animals could have gotten significantly larger.
Life expectancies could have been much longer.
A lot of things could have been seriously different.
Click to expand...

Sure things would have been different.. enough water in a vapor canopy to raise the ocean level a foot would have raised the temperature on earth to above the boiling point. Maybe everyone could live and breath in scalding steam then too.
 
154 said:
Imagine if, prior to the cataclysmic changes of the earth and environment of the Flood,
the atmosphere was much more of a heavy vapor canopy, of a greater pressure and shielded much more of the uv rays.
Earth could have essentially been a big hyperbaric chamber.
Climate could be generally consistent and uniform globally.
Large, thick vegetation could have grown at the poles.
Plants and animals could have gotten significantly larger.
Life expectancies could have been much longer.
A lot of things could have been seriously different.
Click to expand...

And yet there's absolutely no evidence of such a time. Nice try.
 
154 said:
Imagine if, prior to the cataclysmic changes of the earth and environment of the Flood,
the atmosphere was much more of a heavy vapor canopy, of a greater pressure and shielded much more of the uv rays.
Earth could have essentially been a big hyperbaric chamber.
Climate could be generally consistent and uniform globally.
Large, thick vegetation could have grown at the poles.
Plants and animals could have gotten significantly larger.
Life expectancies could have been much longer.
A lot of things could have been seriously different.
Click to expand...

Sure things could have been different. In addition to that, the mountains could have been shorter and the valleys less deep, so not so much water was needed. However, there are a couple of problems.

First, how could there be such a water canopy? Water canopies don't just happen. Second, if climate is uniform globally the cold dwelling species we see today couldn't exist, so we are back to an even more extreme version of the post deluge hyperevolution that is necessary to solve the volume and survival problem for the ark story. Third, while a water canopy would change things, it wouldn't change things, all by itself, in the manner you proposed, as ti pointed out. Fourth, it's worth noting that the differences from modern life didn't end with the flood. Noah lived many generations after the flood, so that he was still alive when Abram/Abraham was born 335 years later.

The resolution to all of these problems is obvious. The conditions of the universe, i.e. the laws of physics, were different then. Great. I have no problem with that. God can change the laws of physics whenever he wants, and he can make them different in different parts of the universe if that's what he wants. It's one of the perks of the job.

So, why are believers reluctanct to acknowledge that?
 
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154 said:
Imagine if, prior to the cataclysmic changes of the earth and environment of the Flood,
the atmosphere was much more of a heavy vapor canopy, of a greater pressure and shielded much more of the uv rays.
Earth could have essentially been a big hyperbaric chamber.
Climate could be generally consistent and uniform globally.
Large, thick vegetation could have grown at the poles.
Plants and animals could have gotten significantly larger.
Life expectancies could have been much longer.
A lot of things could have been seriously different.
Click to expand...
Do you realize that you've just inserted enough magic to make three fairy tales? Sure, if you want to invoke magic, just do so. Don't go trying to make it sound scientific, just have God wave his wand of power and it fixes everything. Why even bother defending it as rational? Just admit it is a fable and you're home free.

Or at least, you will be after you click your heels together three times.
 
What a life Noah must have led. Of course, most accounts of his life focus on the events leading up to the flood, but think about what he saw after that.

By the time of Abraham, people had migrated from Ararat to every corner of the Earth. They had changed from a single, monoglot, family to become people of all races, speaking all the languages of men. There were millions of people on the Earth by then, and every last one of them was his descendant. Not all was happiness for him. He had seen every last human being except for the eight on the ark destroyed for their wickedness, and yet he had watched as more and more of his descendants turned away from the worship of the Lord, falling into pagan practice, until his religion was found only in one small corner of the world. Of course, the religion wasn't all that well established, because the next covenant wouldn't be made until shortly after his death, but most of the world was polytheistic and had forgotten the flood that he had lived through.

I wonder if he tried to preach to them and warn them, first as they built the Tower at Babel, and later as they turned away from God altogether and invented new systems of religion, or did he just sit back and realize, as God had told him so long before, that the race of men was truly wicked, and that he should be happy that at least a few of his millions of offspring were faithful to the Lord? Undoubtedly God would, in his own time, reveal more and more. Did he know that the first of his desendants to outlive him would be the one whom God chose to form the new covenant?

And did any among his millions of family know who he was? Did they recognize him as the second father of the human race, or was he an obscure old man, living somewhere in a cave, unknown to his children's children? I'm reminded of The Last Emperor, where the Emperor of All China, when asked who he was, replied "a gardener". Somewhere in Babylon had Noah landed a job as the royal zookeeper, where he kept quiet and simply observed as people wondered how he had learned so much about animal care?
 
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154 said:
Imagine if, prior to the cataclysmic changes of the earth and environment of the Flood,
the atmosphere was much more of a heavy vapor canopy, of a greater pressure and shielded much more of the uv rays.
Earth could have essentially been a big hyperbaric chamber.
Climate could be generally consistent and uniform globally.
Large, thick vegetation could have grown at the poles.
Plants and animals could have gotten significantly larger.
Life expectancies could have been much longer.
A lot of things could have been seriously different.
Click to expand...

In the world of the imagination all things are possible, in reality not so.
 
Radrook said:
The same bit about being indoctrinated at a young age can be said about evolution. No?
Click to expand...

No. Indoctrination into a belief system with no evidential foundation =/= instruction in any of the dozens of scientific disciplines where observation leads to experimentation leads to analysis leads to conclusions leads to error analysis by independent parties leads to corroboration (or contention) leads to theories being verified and accepted (or rejected), until new evidence emerges and the whole process begins anew.

See the difference there? I admit it's subtle (:rolleyes:), so you might have missed it.
 
Radrook said:
The same bit about being indoctrinated at a young age can be said about evolution. No?
Click to expand...

only if the kids are intelligent enough to understand scientific evidence and evaluate it
youre an adult and you dont understand evolution, your level is sky daddy fairy stories and liying to yourself about having to prop up your lack of faith with bs evidence and cicular arguments

are you seriously suggesting that children are more intelligent and able to grasp science better than you can


wait
why am I even asking that question
:D
 
Radrook said:
The same bit about being indoctrinated at a young age can be said about evolution. No?
Click to expand...
No. You can actually repeat the experiments that give evidence for evolution. For example, you could do the same experiments that Mendel did to discover the basic patterns of genetic dominance. In fact, I have done similar experiments.

Can you do that with Biblical dogma? Can you give examples?
 
Radrook said:
The same bit about being indoctrinated at a young age can be said about evolution. No?
Click to expand...

I think indoctrination is way overrated. Most people aren't mind numbed zombies who believe anything you throw at them with no supporting evidence.

You could, indeed, "indoctrinate" someone to believe in evolution, or Christianity, or Santa, or communism, but the child that you indoctrinate is going to grow up, and most of them will at some point start asking questions, and if the intended beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny, they will be rejected.

Evolution usually passes the test. Creationsim rarely does. The only way that creationism usually gets by is if you somehow persuade the object of the indoctrination that it is evil to even ask the question.
 
Radrook said:
The same bit about being indoctrinated at a young age can be said about evolution. No?
Click to expand...

Possibly a response to the video I posted a while back. Teaching children to think is quite different from what the teachers in the video were doing. One must look carefully at the faces of those children, and you really have to be honest with yourself. I was a little severe when I stated that the experience will "will poison their lives for years". I almost came back to change that. Perhaps, "impact their view of the world for years" would have been a better choice of words. It is just wrong to ridicule proven science among young impressionable children. Prove the science wrong, fine, but don't concoct a brew of nonsense that is more off the wall than Santa Claus and pass it off as the truth. It isn't fair.

I have experienced inspiring children just by explaining to them what I do, and showing them my test equipment in my shop. It is something they never forget, and it impacts their choice of a career in some cases. It sure did for me, when my cousin showed me his electronics and radios, an interest which I passed along to my nephew and some friends' children.


Olowkow said:
It is very difficult for me to understand how an adult can believe in fairy tales, particularly if they were not indoctrinated as children. I just happened to find this video that shows a field trip to a museum by a group of home schooled children and their fundamentalist guardians. It is almost too much to bear, seeing those curious faces being fed propaganda that will poison their lives for years. I know people like this. This is just mass insanity.


Click to expand...
 
Marduk said:
only if the kids are intelligent enough to understand scientific evidence and evaluate it
youre an adult and you dont understand evolution, your level is sky daddy fairy stories and liying to yourself about having to prop up your lack of faith with bs evidence and cicular arguments

are you seriously suggesting that children are more intelligent and able to grasp science better than you can


wait
why am I even asking that question
:D
Click to expand...

Complexity,
Now is this illiteracy abysmal or what?
 
154 said:
Complexity,
Now is this illiteracy abysmal or what?
Click to expand...

As you don't understand evolution and also use circular reasoning and show repeatedly a complete lack of real faith in your professed beliefs and have also demonstrated several traits of a paranoid mental disorder why don't you make up whatever you like about my comments and go with that

no wait, youre already doing that arent you
:D
 
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I said that Abraham was the first of Noah's descendants to outlive him, but that's wrong. Here's a table of Noah and 10 generations of descendants, with birth and death dates, based on the flood being year 0.

Name Born Died
Noah -600 350
Shem ? 502
Aphraxad 2 435
Salah 32 465
Eber 62 526
Peleg 96 335
Reu 126 365
Serug 158 388
Nahor 188 336
Terah 217 422
Abram 287 464
Isaac 387 (Didn't look this one up.)

So Noah lived until just before Abram set out from the place of his birth in Ur of the Chaldeans. Shem, an ark survivor, outlived Abraham. I wonder if he got circumcised after the covenant was established. Of course, I suppose the new covenant was only with Abraham's children, not with his great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather, so Shem was probably allowed to stay intact.
 
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