Muslims respond with "Draw Holocaust Day"

[Pardalis]

Depends how you define proper. If you mean likely to lead to a peaceful outcome in the shortest possible time scale without large scale killings then yes. However cultures that take that approach tend not to last long.

I have no idea what you mean.

You're the one who used the word "proper", you define it.

How is denying the Holocaust peaceful?

the proper response to "Draw Muhammed Day" would have been: "Yeah, Ok, we get the joke, ah-ha, not funny" and move on.

 

[Pardalis]

Well, at least it's a nonviolent response. That was the goal, yeah?

The goal was to get Muslims to understand that they should get a hold of themselves. The lesson to be learned is to be self-critical, and to acknowledge that drawing Muhammed shouldn't be that much of a big deal in the modern world.

This group decided to respond with even more hatred and intolerance, and intellectual dishonesty. This should never be seen as the "proper response". If you do, you abdicate to extremism.

In other words, that facebook group didn't get it.

 

[Thunder]

How is denying the Holocaust peaceful?

um.......hold on a second.

are you suggesting doubting the Holocaust...is an act of violence?

I consider Holocaust denial to be stupid and offensive, but an act of violence?

I think not. If Holocaust denial is an act of violence, than it can be made illegal in the USA. And that....would be a very dangerous precident...sure to be struck down by the SCOTUS.

 

[Pardalis]

are you suggesting doubting the Holocaust...is an act of violence?

No, but it's not peaceful.

 

[Thunder]

No, but it's not peaceful.

what is "unpeaceful" about Holocaust denial?

you are losing this argument reaaaaallllly quickly. I suggest you pull back.

 

[Pardalis]

what is "unpeaceful" about Holocaust denial?

Are you serious?

 

[geni]

So all this is just fair game to you?

Freedom of speech. I'm sure 4chan could come up with worse.

A few people draw a prophet and the proper response is blatant racism and historical revisionism?

"Proper response" is subjective. It's not a responce I would chose but it's A responce I can see the point they are trying to make.

Seriously, why would Muslims in Indonesia, Pakistan or Iran be still troubled by what happened in Palestine 60 years ago?

Well of course Iran is still actively involved. There have also been a number of further wars over the decades.

There are a number of theories for the widespread concern over the middle east issue. For example it has been suggested that the relative dissunity over religious issues results in a focus on politics in an attempt to find areas of common ground.

But really the question is no stranger than why should britian got to war with Abyssinia to rescuse half a dozen people.

At least Gibraltar is near Spain. Speaking of Spain, should Muslims around the world still be pissed they lost that one too?

I think that is limited to some pretty small groups at this point. Oposition to spain tends to be more local with the likes of basque nationalism.

 

[Thunder]

Are you serious?

Holocaust denial suggests a massive conspiracy to dupe the world.

How is this accusation....a non-peaceful act? Where is the action that you consider to be "non-peaceful"?

you are making zero sense.

again, Holocaust denial is disgusting and repugnant...but non-peaceful? the simple act of denying the Holocaust is non-peaceful? thats utter BS.

 

[geni]

I have no idea what you mean.

You're the one who used the word "proper", you define it.

False:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5965086&postcount=60
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5965019&postcount=56

How is denying the Holocaust peaceful?

non sequitur

the proper response to "Draw Muhammed Day" would have been: "Yeah, Ok, we get the joke, ah-ha, not funny" and move on.

Again this insistence on moving on.

 

[Pardalis]

Freedom of speech.

No, in their case it's vengeance and spite. They don't care about freedom of speech.

"Proper response" is subjective. It's not a responce I would chose but it's A responce I can see the point they are trying to make.

So is that your way to renounce to the use of the word "proper"?

There are a number of theories for the widespread concern over the middle east issue. For example it has been suggested that the relative dissunity over religious issues results in a focus on politics in an attempt to find areas of common ground.

Yes, I noticed that antisemitism is an area of common ground for alot of people.

Noticed how Muslim countries never lift the finger to give help to the Palestinians?

think that is limited to some pretty small groups at this point. Oposition to spain tends to be more local with the likes of basque nationalism.

That's why I hate flimsy historical comparisons, I have no idea where we're going with this.

Holocaust denial suggests a massive conspiracy to dupe the world.

How is this accusation....a non-peaceful act? Where is the action that you consider to be "non-peaceful"?

you are making zero sense.

Sorry Parky, you'll be on ignore from now on. I don't suffer fools gladly.

 

[MikeSun5]

A few lot of people draw a prophet intentionally insult an entire religion and the proper response is blatant racism and historical revisionism?

fixed that for you. I'm not downplaying the Holocaust denial response because it's completely absurd, but you're most definitely downplaying the intentional mass disrespect of a religion.

As explained in this thread, "Draw Mohammed Day" was not initially an issue of free speech, but a response to the threats of violence aimed at Comedy Central for their controversial South Park episode (your avatar is funny, btw). They were trying to widen the field of infidel targets for the extremists to kill.

Again, denying the holocaust is a silly response -- and that page was probably started by Americans anyway. I'd venture to guess that because of most people's non-Muslim upbringing, they have no way to relate to being offended by a depiction of a person. Therefore, people don't care and think it's funny. I think the whole thing is stupid, but I'm still not drawing pics of Mohammed because I feel no need to instigate and anger a bunch of people for the sake of a few idiots.

Denying the holocaust is just some bonehead's way to anger and instigate the angry instigators.

 

[Pardalis]

False:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5965086&postcount=60
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5965019&postcount=56

Ah, my bad, you said "reasonable".

Could you explain why you find denying the holocaust a reasonable response? Maybe you could define "reasonable"?

Again this insistence on moving on.

Yes, I find that quailing over past injustices doesn't help anyone move forward. It only fuels resentment and hatred.

Forward is the way to go, but that's just me.

 

[Pardalis]

fixed that for you. I'm not downplaying the Holocaust denial response because it's completely absurd, but you're most definitely downplaying the intentional mass disrespect of a religion.

I'm not sure about that.

Drawing Muhammed is not being disrespectful of the entire religion. It's disrespecting the few extremists who find it a crime to represent the prophet in any shape or form.

Do all Muslims find any visual depiction of Muhammed offensive?

I'm sure alot of Muslims got the joke of Muhammed in the bear suit and the U-Haul in South Park, and they probably undesrtood that drawing a stickman and the word "Muhammed" pointing to it isn't really depicting the prophet Muhammed. I'm sure Modern Muslims understand that images are just images.

Or maybe I'm too optimistic.

 

[geni]

Ah, my bad, you said "reasonable".

Could you explain why you find denying the holocaust a reasonable response?

I don't know. Thats your strawman.

Maybe you could define "reasonable"?

Your criminal law system is common law based is it not? Reasonable person is a well established concept.

Yes, I find that quailing over past injustices doesn't help anyone move forward. It only fuels resentment and hatred.

Forward is the way to go, but that's just me.

You can hardly claim not to have a vested interest on this point.

 

[Thunder]

Noticed how Muslim countries never lift the finger to give help to the Palestinians?

nice derail.

 

[Pardalis]

I don't know. Thats your strawman.

Now you're being dishonest.

YOU said:

If drawing mohamed is done to make a point making jokes about the holocaust to make a point seems a reasonable responce.

If you took a look at that facebook page, and the contents of the illustrations, you know they are not making jokes, but mainly denying the Holocaust.

Your criminal law system is common law based is it not? Reasonable person is a well established concept.

I do not find denialism reasonable.

You can hardly claim not to have a vested interest on this point.

I'm a secular Québécois, I don't give a rat's ass about Israel, or what happened there in 1948.

 

[Thunder]

If you took a look at that facebook page, and the contents of the illustrations, you know they are not making jokes, but mainly denying the Holocaust.

which you consider a non-peaceful act, for reasons that you refuse to explain.

do they not support non-violent freedom of speech in New France?

 

[geni]

Now you're being dishonest.

YOU said:



If you took a look at that facebook page, and the contents of the illustrations, you know they are not making jokes, but mainly denying the Holocaust.

There were qualifiers in that sentence and it was followed by further qualification in the next sentence.

I'm a secular Québécois, I don't give a rat's ass about Israel, or what happened there in 1948.

On the other hand you live in an area where events of 1759 are of some import and it would be inconvient for you if early dealings with the first nations because to much of an issue.

 

[Thunder]

I would really...really...like to know how Holocaust-denial is a non-peaceful act.

How is denying the Holocaust at JREF, a non-peaceful act?

does a Holocaust-denying post reach out of the computer screen and wack ya in the face?

 

[Pardalis]

There were qualifiers in that sentence and it was followed by further qualification in the next sentence.

Another piece of bandwidth lost.

On the other hand you live in an area where events of 1759 are of some import and it would be inconvient for you if early dealings with the first nations because to much of an issue.

But we all know there's nothing anyone can do about it now. We can only deal with the people of today.

BTW, is English your first language? I find it hard deciphering your posts.