Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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If putting a person in jail for several years for beating several men and beating several woman is moral then giving some lashes for that same crime is also moral because it is a less severe punishment then having to spend several years in jail.
Would turning the other cheek be moral?
.....and why are you linking the beating of the slave to a different story. The salve was beaten for not following his masters will and for not knowing his master's will not for beating people up. Do you really think a slave would not know his master does not want him beating people up.

Even if you are right. why is Jesus offering such a barbaric penalty.The code of Hammurabi which predated the Jesus myth by some 1800 years makes clear that violence is unacceptable. It only gave monetary punishment for beating slaves. Why did Jesus decide on a less moral vengence?
 
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If putting a person in jail for several years for beating several men and beating several woman Not doing what your master expected is moral then giving some lashes for that same crime is also moral because it is a less severe punishment then having to spend several years in jail.
She said she had many opportunities to escape but did not know where or whom to seek help from.

Nirmala said the first time she was abused was when she accidentally broke a mug while washing it.
“She (employer’s wife) then threw boiling water on me.

“One day, she got upset while I was ironing. She said the clothes had not been properly ironed and slapped me. “She took the iron out of my hand and pressed it against my breasts,” said Nirmala.
http://thestar.com.my/news/nastory.asp?file=/2004/5/20/nation/8016283&sec=nation

Scum
 
I don't believe anyone ever answered my point as to whether they would rather receive 10 lashes or spend several years in jail.
That's because your 'point', which (typically) jumps over the real issue (that your god is contradictory to the point of ridicule) is inane

Personally I rather receive 10 lashes and be sore for a few days, kind of like a sunburn.
Personally, I'd rather you received some of that fabled 'divine inspiration' and stopped posting crap

Anyhoo...

This thread is supposed to about you providing evidence that your god is a messiah with magic powers 'n' stuff

If you ever get any credible evidence - the sort that bears scrutiny - please do post it

In the meantime, stop derailing this thread with any more inane woo-based nonsense
 
Audible Click said:
God is supposedly omnipotent, so why would he have to "realize" the situation is "hopeless"? He would know that beforehand...
That would be true if God didn't give people free will and they were programmed robots. But since he did give them free will, it would be impossible for Him to know before hand because that would violate the Law of Non-Contradiction and thus be an absurdity. And even if he had the ability to know beforehand he could always choose not to know in this instance.
That would might be true if your god wasn't merely fictitious

Please do respond if you have any credible evidence to counter the notion that your god is anything other than - as Dawkins puts it "...the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

Otherwise, stop derailing this thread
 
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That would might be true if your god wasn't merely fictitious

Please do respond if you have any credible evidence to counter the notion that your god is anything other than - as Dawkins puts it "...the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

Otherwise, stop derailing this thread
Derailing?
You mean we are not in the Alice in Wonderland crossdressing costuming forum?
 
I'm dead serious, and even the bible supports it by saying God does not remember forgiven sin. He simply could choose not to remember forgiven sin.


We have no evidence that anything in your big book of fairytales is true. Remember? It's what you were supposed to be establishing all this time.

Does the concept of circular reasoning still escape you DOC? Should I start posting a picture of it in every reply to you as a reminder?


ETA

<drivel>


You know it is, so why keep posting it?
 
I don't believe anyone ever answered my point as to whether they would rather receive 10 lashes or spend several years in jail.

Personally I rather receive 10 lashes and be sore for a few days, kind of like a sunburn.
Do you beat your wife when she breaks a rule?
What about your kids?

I just want to know if you actually live by this code, or if you are merely being "hypothetical".
 
If putting a person in jail for several years for beating several men and beating several woman is moral then giving some lashes for that same crime is also moral because it is a less severe punishment then having to spend several years in jail.
(I can't believe I have to explain this)

Our Justice system provides every person the opportunity to have a trial by one's peers, a right to face one's accused, and is innocent until proven guilty. Facts are weighed and used to evaluate a person's guilt. Further, in many cases ignorance of a crime is deemed to be legitimate proof of innocence (e.g., a missing traffic sign). Also, our system protect the guilty from cruel and unusual punishment and we have a history of having crimes be proportional to the severity of the crime.


Jesus advocates a master (one person) to have full right to determine what is a crime and what the severity of the punishment that crime is. Jesus also advocates that this punishment be a beating.


If you honestly believe Jesus' system is better, than you are a great example of the evil of religion.
 
Historian Shelby Foote, who was on the PBS acclaimed series "The Civil War" wrote a 3 volume history book on the Civil War. Do you think he was a witness of the Civil War or knew any witnesses. But he did have one advantage. They had paper and printing presses during the Civil War but they didn't have that during biblical times. We don't even have an existing signature of Julius Caesar.

It has been pointed out to you multiple times that the bureaucracy of the Roman Empire was among the most compulsive record-keeping regimes in the history of the world. While there may be no signatures from Julius Caesar, there are plenty of other records from his reign. So stop with the "we don't have any records from Julius Caesar" crap.


I don't believe anyone ever answered my point as to whether they would rather receive 10 lashes or spend several years in jail.

Personally I rather receive 10 lashes and be sore for a few days, kind of like a sunburn.

Probably because it's got absolutely nothing to do with evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

Are you hoping that you can derail this thread enough that it will just go away?

Why have you become so fixated on this one tiny and irrelevant point when you've got the whole of the NT to deal with? Is this really the best you've got?

It's pathetic.
O Pharaoh, while what you say is true, I would like to point out that, as with so many things, our OP seems to have no clue as to what is involved in a lashing. I venture to guess that beating with a whip, even only ten strokes, would leave one considerably worse off than "sore kind of like a sunburn." For one thing, whips generally break the skin.

doc, would you like to give me a whip and let me take ten lashes at you and see whether you would rather have that than a sunburn? And that's a question intended to see if you can think at all, not a threat.


That would be true if God didn't give people free will and they were programmed robots. But since he did give them free will, it would be impossible for Him to know before hand because that would violate the Law of Non-Contradiction and thus be an absurdity. And even if he had the ability to know beforehand he could always choose not to know in this instance.
So your God is not omniscient? Because if He is, He knows everything, even before it happens and there is no such thing as free will, only your illusion of it. If He has to wait until something happens before he knows it, then He's no better than any person on the street, even you. Well, maybe He would be better than you because sometimes you don't seem to know even after something happens.


You should have also highlighted the words "And even if". This implies he can't do it now because it would be an absurdity. But I'm implying that if for some unforseen and implausible way he could then he could always choose not to.
This is not even coherent. Have you been taking lessons from edge?


I'm dead serious, and even the bible supports it by saying God does not remember forgiven sin. He simply could choose not to remember forgiven sin.

ETA

Maybe you can't block things from your memory but God certainly can if he chooses to.
Careful, you're getting into "if God can do anything, can He make a rock so big He can't lift it?" territory. The omnisicient Deity can choose to forget things, thereby rendering Himself no longer omniscient?
 
If putting a person in jail for several years for beating several men and beating several woman is moral then giving some lashes for that same crime is also moral because it is a less severe punishment then having to spend several years in jail.
You've skipped due process entirely, just like Jesus.

Despicable.
 
Does this look like Sunburn to anyone except Doc?
mp029.jpg
 
Does this look like Sunburn to anyone except Doc?
[qimg]http://historymatters.gmu.edu/mpimages/mp029.jpg[/qimg]
No... doesn't look like sunburn to me...


It looks like evidence of a benevolent god's love
 
My best guess would be a picture from the documentary expedition to Belgian Congo after claims that the Belgian kings management of the place were a bit rough.

Sunburns were not mentioned.
 
I don't believe anyone ever answered my point as to whether they would rather receive 10 lashes or spend several years in jail.

Personally I rather receive 10 lashes and be sore for a few days, kind of like a sunburn.

(I can't believe I have to explain this)

Our Justice system provides every person the opportunity to have a trial by one's peers, a right to face one's accused, and is innocent until proven guilty. Facts are weighed and used to evaluate a person's guilt. Further, in many cases ignorance of a crime is deemed to be legitimate proof of innocence (e.g., a missing traffic sign). Also, our system protect the guilty from cruel and unusual punishment and we have a history of having crimes be proportional to the severity of the crime.


Jesus advocates a master (one person) to have full right to determine what is a crime and what the severity of the punishment that crime is. Jesus also advocates that this punishment be a beating.


If you honestly believe Jesus' system is better, than you are a great example of the evil of religion.

Joobz answered that point so well, that there really is no need for any more answers, byt yes, I would rather go to prison for an offence, if it meant I had been tried and found guilty by the justice system, than be beaten at the discretion of my owner, sorry *employer*.
 
Historian Josephus didn't think Moses was fictional. And to be frank, I value his beliefs about Moses over yours.
"Josephus didn't think Moses was fictional"?

Really?

And you know this how?

Seriously DOC... ask yourself why you value the hearsay-based beliefs of a 1st century historian writing about events that occured long before his own time and you may well spot a gaping hole in your 'logic';
  • you like stuff that supports your delusions
  • you reject stuff that shows, with minimal effort, how your beliefs are inane in the extreme

Anyhoo...

Enough of this derail...

Ya got any evidence that supports your hitherto unsubstantiated idea that your christ was a full-blown super-duper-natural magic god?
 
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Historian Shelby Foote, who was on the PBS acclaimed series "The Civil War" wrote a 3 volume history book on the Civil War. Do you think he was a witness of the Civil War or knew any witnesses. But he did have one advantage. They had paper and printing presses during the Civil War but they didn't have that during biblical times. We don't even have an existing signature of Julius Caesar.

But we do have coins with the image of Caesar on them. We have nothing at all of Jesus besides the N/T. No positive proof that he was a real historical man, and not a heavenly being made manifest in the imagination of Paul.
 
Oooooh. another one for the list...

I noticed you didn't list any of the posts I responded to when talking about post numbers so they would appear in context.

But actually the number of posts I have made (over 1900) is something to think about. Could a Scientologist legitimately defend their religion against 250 skeptics in a 326 page thread with 13,000 posts in it. How about a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or Jew. I know of no one in these religions that has defended their religion against hundreds of skeptics with cold facts for 20 pages much less 326. Whether you agree with me or not, one has to seriously consider the fact that I have so much information to support my claims. Where are the followers of other religions supporting their beliefs with cold historical data against hundreds of skeptics?
 
I noticed you didn't list any of the posts I responded to when talking about post numbers so they would appear in context.
I listed them all and gave links

But actually the number of posts I have made (over 1900) is something to think about. Could a Scientologist legitimately defend their religion against 250 skeptics in a 326 page thread with 13,000 posts in it. How about a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or Jew. I know of no one in these religions that has defended their religion against hundreds of skeptics with cold facts for 20 pages much less 326.
If you believe you have legitimately defended your religion you are delusional.
Whether you agree with me or not, one has to seriously consider the fact that I have so much information to support my claims. Where are the followers of other religions supporting their beliefs with cold historical data against hundreds of skeptics?
Information? Noise more like. You have made many posts. Not one has provided evidence that the NT authors told the truth. Every attempt you have made to defend your religion has been thoroughly debunked several times over.
 
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It is not crazy and psychotic to give a severe punishment to someone who beat several men and several women.

Well, let's see...

Any punishment that is eternal is, by definition, disproportionate to the crime. And given god's supposedly omniscient nature, he should know this. The only kind of person who would mete out this punishment is either thoroughly evil, or mad. Your choice.
 
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