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National ID card

DC said:
what risks are the for National ID Cards?

i grew up with them. i alsways have to cary either passport or ID Card. for me that totaly normal and i see no risks at all.
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Don't get the problem either.
 
What reason is there to believe that ID cards will meaningfully impact illegal immigration? Seems like just doing something for the sake of doing something to me.
 
barrymore said:
What reason is there to believe that ID cards will meaningfully impact illegal immigration? Seems like just doing something for the sake of doing something to me.
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Seconded.

If a person really REALLY wants to get here illegally, they will. ID cards won't help. I grew up overseas in a military community where ID cards were mandatory to get on U.S. bases. It didn't prevent unwanted people from getting on base. They found ways.

This thread reminded me of something I saw Jon Stewart say recently on the Daily Show. He was talking about Arizona's proposed immigration laws and he mentioned that people keep calling Obama a tyrant, but there's nothing more tyrannical than the phrase, "Show me your papers." There hasn't been a Nazi movie made that didn't include that phrase at least once.
 
MikeSun5 said:
This thread reminded me of something I saw Jon Stewart say recently on the Daily Show. He was talking about Arizona's proposed immigration laws and he mentioned that people keep calling Obama a tyrant, but there's nothing more tyrannical than the phrase, "Show me your papers." There hasn't been a Nazi movie made that didn't include that phrase at least once.
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Actually federal law requires legal immigrants to have their papers on them. The Nazi comparison is just stupid on so many levels. Do you think a police officer is a Nazi for demanding to see your license, registration, and proof of insurance when you get pulled over for speeding?
 
Ironically, I have German visitors here fairly frequently, and I always have to remind them to bring ID in case we go to a bar where they card everybody, regardless of age. They think it's stupid, and I just shout "ihre papieren, bitte!"
 
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I gaze into my crystal ball and see that the national identification card will have no effect in the influx of illegal immigrants.

I do see added revenue to the federal government as they would probably charge a nominal fee to replace lost and stolen ID cards.
 
uruk said:
I do see added revenue to the federal government as they would probably charge a nominal fee to replace lost and stolen ID cards.
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What about a fine for not being able to produce it on request?
 
WildCat said:
Do you think a police officer is a Nazi for demanding to see your license, registration, and proof of insurance when you get pulled over for speeding?
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...also, we're not discussing someone being asked for their ID and proof they can operate a vehicle because they broke the law like your example suggests. That is not the context of this conversation.

What's being discussed is an ID for when you are forced to prove you are a citizen. Nothing has been stipulated as to why you'd have to show your hypothetical "National ID card." So that joke still works. ;)
 
MikeSun5 said:
What's being discussed is an ID for when you are forced to prove you are a citizen. Nothing has been stipulated as to why you'd have to show your hypothetical "National ID card." So that joke still works. ;)
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Actually what the OP was discussing was a national ID card to show to employers which would prove you are legal to work.

I have no idea where you got the "forced to prove you are a citizen" part.
 
WildCat said:
Actually what the OP was discussing was a national ID card to show to employers which would prove you are legal to work.

I have no idea where you got the "forced to prove you are a citizen" part.
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:confused: There is already a way to do this...online. Which seems to be the most cost-effective way to implement the whole thing.
 
barrymore said:
What about a fine for not being able to produce it on request?
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Sorry, my crystal ball had a smudge on it. Once I washed the crystal ball off, I saw something else. It gave me a list showing the amount of hassle certain catagories of people will recieve for not having thier National ID on them when asked to produce them.

1. Americans of European Decent: Extremely minimal. Fine predominantly waived when ID is produced weeks later at police station.

2. Americans of Asian Decent: Minimal. Fine predominatly waived if individual Speakes without accent, fine reduced if person speakes with an accent but owns a business or has a doctorate degree.

3. Americans of African Decent: Moderate. Fine reduced when ID is later produced at police station and after a criminal record search is run on individual.

4. Americans of Hispanic Decent: High. If the individual speakes without an accent, a heavy fine is levied when ID is later produced at police station. If the individual speakes with an accent, the individual is detained untill a relative can bring the ID to the police station. Afterward a criminal record is run and a crippling fine is levied against the individual.


So sayeth the crystal ball.

Now back to crystal ball porn.
 
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WildCat said:
I have no idea where you got the "forced to prove you are a citizen" part.
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I got it from Jon Stewart's joke. I have no idea where you get your super-sensitivity or your lack of satire comprehension. If you're so desperate to argue, there are other threads with way more fodder. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

uruk said:
So sayeth the crystal ball.
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What an accurate crystal ball! Number 4 should probably include people of middle eastern decent, too...
 
MikeSun5 said:
I got it from Jon Stewart's joke. I have no idea where you get your super-sensitivity or your lack of satire comprehension. If you're so desperate to argue, there are other threads with way more fodder. Sheesh. :rolleyes:
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Never having heard the Jon Stewart joke you were satirizing it was lost on me.
 
barrymore said:
What reason is there to believe that ID cards will meaningfully impact illegal immigration? Seems like just doing something for the sake of doing something to me.
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I have not had my original SS card in over 30 years. I've got a state issued drivers license and a copy of my birth certificate (my passport is expired). Neither of these has my SS number on them and any time I have been asked (by employers) to produce the SS number my saying it has been sufficient.

As far as I know unless I'm driving there is no requirement (I could be wrong) for me to carry any form of ID. Unless there is a plan in place to change this fact this will have no effect and is a costly waste of time.
 
DGM said:
As far as I know unless I'm driving there is no requirement (I could be wrong) for me to carry any form of ID. Unless there is a plan in place to change this fact this will have no effect and is a costly waste of time.
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I think that's what is going on... Apparently, it'd be to help curb illegal immigration and voter fraud, as well as helping prospective employers to "prove you are you."

I just don't see the point. I already have quite a few forms of ID that are acceptable for me to prove "I am me." As far as the voter fraud, I thought that's what those automated rather than paper ballots were for... and the only way a National ID card would help slow illegal immigration is if people were constantly asked to "prove who they were." People who hire illegals aren't worried about their workers "proving who they are," so it sure seems like it'd be mostly up to police to get rid of illegals by checking for cards.

How would they do that? Who would be considered suspicious? Non-English speakers? Non-whites? It seems a pretty slippery slope to me.

...if they do go through with this nonsense, I really hope whatever system they put in place to do it is more efficient than the DMV.
 
MikeSun5 said:
I got it from Jon Stewart's joke. I have no idea where you get your super-sensitivity or your lack of satire comprehension. If you're so desperate to argue, there are other threads with way more fodder. Sheesh. :rolleyes:



What an accurate crystal ball! Number 4 should probably include people of middle eastern decent, too...
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According to the crystal ball, Middle Eastern people are included in the American of Hispanic Decent demographics. Most people think Americans of Middle Eastern decent look like hispanics anyway. They are usually refered to as OTMs (other than Mexican)


True story (or at least as my brother recalls it). My older brother was a civilian contractor stationed in the mountains in Afghanistan. One early morning he to took a short walk out side of the base in his bath robes. A local Afghan who was working near the base came up to him and started talking to him in his native tounge. My brother stopped him and kindly inform him that he was not a local but an American of Mexican decent.

My brother and I are half hispanic. Our looks took after our mother who is full hispanic.

Even the Middle Eastern people think that Mexicans look like themselves.
 
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David James,

Well to start a fingerprint, and you don't require a fingerprint on drivers liscences except perhaps in california.
 
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