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National ID card

This sounds like it will punish the bulk of ordinary, hard working American citizens due to the conduct of illegal immigrants.

This also seems like a system that could seriously compromise the privacy of American citizens
 
Safe-Keeper,

These ID-cards would have to have a pretty good amount of information on them in order to be reasonably resistant to forgery, and all that data would have to be stored somewhere...
 
INRM said:
This sounds like it will punish the bulk of ordinary, hard working American citizens due to the conduct of illegal immigrants.

This also seems like a system that could seriously compromise the privacy of American citizens
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What doesn't seem like a "system that could seriously compromise the privacy" of people to you?
 
shawmutt said:
I have two national forms of identification--a social security card and a passport. Why not improve on what we have already (or just enforce the laws on the books) instead of introducing another useless (and costly) piece of paper?
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My Social Security card says "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES-NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" right on the front.
 
INRM, what data will be on those ID cards that you dont want a police officer to know?
 
INRM said:
Safe-Keeper,

These ID-cards would have to have a pretty good amount of information on them in order to be reasonably resistant to forgery, and all that data would have to be stored somewhere...
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You know in the UK we already have passports with those chips with data on them due to the USA.
 
Giggywig,

Well, more accurately *seriously* compromise the privacy of Americans.
 
INRM said:
Giggywig,

Well, more accurately *seriously* compromise the privacy of Americans.
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How, please be very specific and include what data do you think would be on the card that isn't readily available on other documents like drivers license or passport.

But I'm guessing you'll ignore this like every other time anyone asks you for anything specific.
 
I would only support a NID card if and only if a federal agent could ask for such card. IE, state/municipal and or NGOs could't use such a card for any reason.

States/Municipalities using NID's to uphold their own laws/requirements would be disasterous.
 
So, let me get this straight: we force 300,000,000+ people to get ID cards because there are roughly 15mm people in the country that people do not want here, of which the majority do not cause harm to anybody, of which almost none of which affect you personally. And people wonder how the government has gotten so big...
 
Supernovae said:
I would only support a NID card if and only if a federal agent could ask for such card. IE, state/municipal and or NGOs could't use such a card for any reason.

States/Municipalities using NID's to uphold their own laws/requirements would be disasterous.
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:confused:

What, exactly, is your objection? How would it be "disastrous"? Use a hypothetical example.
 
Thunder said:
Hell, I know someone who used to pick up illegals to do concrete work. $200 a day, cash. No payroll or any taxes paid. National ID card wouldn't mean **** to this guy, and the thousands of others who use illegals the same way.
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All you have to do is get serious about stopping it. Do the same thing they do with narcotics or prostitution: Have someone pose as an "undocumented person". Get hired for cash, then bust him. If you start sending these people (employers) to prison at the same rate as drug dealers and prostitutes, you raise the cost of doing business this way by making it riskier.
 
Bikewer said:
Forgers have proven to be remarkably clever when it comes to duplicating hard-to-duplicate documents...
They certainly have no trouble with driver's licenses; I would estimate that most all the students here have at least one...And they look pretty good, too.

I think it was 60 minutes that did a segment on getting a set of "papers" (DL, social security card, a few others) in border areas; it was remarkably fast and not particularly expensive.
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dudalb said:
Any National Identity Card would be too freaking easy to forge to be effective.
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Not really. Make it like money. Money is hard to forge. Include some gee-whiz biometric stuff and it's even harder than money.
 
Puppycow said:
All you have to do is get serious about stopping it. Do the same thing they do with narcotics or prostitution: Have someone pose as an "undocumented person". Get hired for cash, then bust him. If you start sending these people (employers) to prison at the same rate as drug dealers and prostitutes, you raise the cost of doing business this way by making it riskier.
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Actually, I don't even think it's illegal to hire day laborers for cash. IIRC it's up to the day laborer to report his income to the IRS. You only deduct from your own permanent workers generally.

And I reiterate, Illinois actually made a law making it illegal to use E-Verify to to find out if your workers are legal residents.
 
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Puppycow said:
Not really. Make it like money. Money is hard to forge. Include some gee-whiz biometric stuff and it's even harder than money.
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I have yet to see a fake ID that passes muster when a cop runs it. It may fool a doorman at a over-21 club but not law enforcement.
 
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