Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Jungle Jim]

You are presuming that the police called Raffaele it was late in the evening and they told him to come immediately. That is what the PMF timeline indicates, but there is no supporting evidence to back it up. The link I posted earlier indicates the pizza meal and phone call happened at 3 PM. The police could have called in the afternoon and Raffaele agreed to come in late that evening.

The supporting evidence is AK's testimony. See post number 7549 to refresh your memory. In the Q & A of that testimony the words "evening" and "dinner" are used.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Yes, according to Amanda herself she was eating pizza when they were called (Kestrel: is Amanda finally a liar now, or is she telling the truth, which is it?).

Except, the one false fact, is that it wasn't at a friend's but rather out at a public place. The 'friends' don't exist, if they had, they'd have been witnesses.

In her testimony AK does not mention what she had for dinner, only that they were eating at a friend's place when RS received a call from the police. I would assume the prosecutor would have challenged her on this statement regarding the friends if it was not true. He/she did not during the testimony. Can you provide a cite (or maybe the post number if it was cited before) to back up the claim that she was in a pizzeria eating dinner when RS was called in to the police station?

 

[Fulcanelli]

And now:

She began speaking in English. After two hours, she switched to Italian, the language in the country where she now lives. Throughout her six-hour testimony, she was confident and collected. She did not cry when she discussed Meredith's death and she passed up what would have been a perfect opportunity to apologize to Patrick Lumumba, the man who spent two weeks in prison after she falsely accused him of Kercher's murder. "Did you ever apologize to Patrick?" asked Lumumba's lawyer, Carlo Pacelli. "No," said Knox. When asked why she named him, she blamed the police. She said she had accompanied Raffaele Sollecito, her then boyfriend who had been called to the police station at 10:30 p.m. on Nov. 5, 2007, for questioning about the murder.

NEWSWEEK

 

[shuttlt]

Yay! Found it!

I'm mathematically sure that I gave that order, in that moment our attention was on Amanda and Raffaele, I decided that we needed to hear them together in order to study their reactions. We called them and they were eating in a pizzeria

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html

So, Giobbi says they were in a pizzeria when they were called. I'd been Googling 'pizza' and I should have been searching for 'pizzeria'.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Out of interest, also read:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...osecution_4_amanda_knoxs_multiple_conflictin/

 

[Fulcanelli]

Yay! Found it!


http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html

So, Giobbi says they were in a pizzeria when they were called. I'd been Googling 'pizza' and I should have been searching for 'pizzeria'.

Bingo.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Yay! Found it!


http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html

So, Giobbi says they were in a pizzeria when they were called. I'd been Googling 'pizza' and I should have been searching for 'pizzeria'.

Good find, although I'm not sure what to make of the blog post especially when it includes this:

But why was Giobbi's attention on Amanda and Raffaele?
As soon as he arrived from Rome he noticed, as everyone else, that the door wasn't broken, he thought that the broken window was a staging, he saw the unbelievable amount of blood in the guys apartment, below. So that's where his attention was, to the guys below.

In any rate we now have sources for the two different locations of the "last supper."

 

[Fulcanelli]

Good find, although I'm not sure what to make of the blog post especially when it includes this:



In any rate we now have sources for the two different locations of the"last supper."

It's true. What they didn't know at the time of course, was that it was cat blood. Even on the stand in the trial, witnesses said there was a large amount of blood in the downstairs flat. I think everyone was surprised that it could all come from a cat (and it still be walking about).

 

[shuttlt]

What's also interesting is that it's the same quote where Giobbi says that he is mathematically certain that he sent for both Amanda and Raffaele. Both aspects of what he said here are contradicted in an odd and apparently trivial way by Amanda.

 

[Fulcanelli]

What's also interesting is that it's the same quote where Giobbi says that he is mathematically certain that he sent for both Amanda and Raffaele. Both aspects of what he said here are contradicted in an odd and apparently trivial way by Amanda.

It's a theme. Amanda isn't helpful in clarifying anything...ever.

If there was an award going for the least helpful person on Earth in clarifying 'anything', it would be Amanda Knox as the winner. I'm not sure if it's because she tries, or if it's just a natural talent.

 

[lector]

And now:

She began speaking in English. After two hours, she switched to Italian, the language in the country where she now lives. Throughout her six-hour testimony, she was confident and collected. She did not cry when she discussed Meredith's death and she passed up what would have been a perfect opportunity to apologize to Patrick Lumumba, the man who spent two weeks in prison after she falsely accused him of Kercher's murder. "Did you ever apologize to Patrick?" asked Lumumba's lawyer, Carlo Pacelli. "No," said Knox. When asked why she named him, she blamed the police. She said she had accompanied Raffaele Sollecito, her then boyfriend who had been called to the police station at 10:30 p.m. on Nov. 5, 2007, for questioning about the murder.

NEWSWEEK

I am not sure what the point of this quotation is, other than perhaps to illustrate further sources of confusion?

If one comma has been misplaced in the bolded sentence, it changes the apparent meaning.

If the punctuation is as intended, the sentence is still ambiguous.

 

[Fulcanelli]

It's the time they were called in (or at least, arrived) for questioning.

 

[Alt+F4]

The link I posted earlier indicates the pizza meal and phone call happened at 3 PM.

The link you posted says NOTHING about a phone call. It says:

The third incident, according to Giobbi, was the most disturbing. It occurred when the police picked up Rafaele Sollecito for questioning

Why do believe Rafaelle was picked up for questioning at a pizzera by the police at 3pm?. Evidence please.

 

[Fulcanelli]

From the official maintained PMF Timeline that Kestrel and co ignored like the plague (why is that, why the running to a redundant timeline by Finn that was discontinued over a year ago?)



Monday 5th Nov, 2007

Morning/Afternoon Amanda and Raffaele in classes. Amanda writes her letter in class where she states she wants her mother to take her shopping

1400 - 1600 Rosa Natalia Guman Fernendez de Calle, RS' cleaning lady, cleans RS' apartment for the last time. She worked for him for about 2 months and would come every Monday from about 2-4pm to clean his apartment. She stated that she used only "lysoform" which is like a general household cleaner like Mr. Clean. She would vaccum, mop the floor, clean the bathroom, kitchen, etc. They kept the cleaning products under the kitchen sink like in most homes, and there were usually about 5-6 different cleaning products as well as cleaning supplies. But she was told to ONLY use "lysoform" to clean. RS and AK were there. She went under the sink to get the cleaning products and noticed a bucket with water in it and wet mop rags. She asked why the wet rags and the bucket, and he said there'd been a leak. The bucket had water in it and it was clear. When asked if she ever used bleach in his home she said absolutely not. When asked if there was bleach among the cleaning products, she said she could not say either way.

2000 Meredith's vigil held in Perugia, sans Amanda and Raffaele

2215 After having dinner, Amanda and Raffaele arrive at the police station

2230 Raffaele, being questioned at this point, breaks and begins to change his story

2239 Amanda is on the phone to Filomena, asking her if they are still going to live together

2300 Amanda, still in the police waiting area is told off by a senior police officer for inappropriate behaviour - splits, cartwheels and back bends

2400 Beginning of Amanda's questioning, which begins informaly as Amanda's official status is one of 'Witness', in the waiting area (Michael: later migrating at some point to an interview room?)


http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=2#p2

 

[lector]

It's the time they were called in (or at least, arrived) for questioning.

No, at least to me, that's only what the sentence seems to say. It's unclear whether they were called at 10:30, or had been called earlier & arrived at 10:30. I suspect the latter, but there's a difference in meaning there.

The latter interpretation is consistent with dinner at friends' & Raffaele having been called there & then.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Earlier, as in 3 PM?

 

[lector]

3 pm

Yes. Wasn't that when they brought the mop & bucket into the lingerie shop along with a couple slices of pizza?

 

[Fulcanelli]

The latter interpretation is consistent with dinner at friends' & Raffaele having been called there & then.

There were no 'friends', it was a pizzeria and it was Raffaele and Amanda alone together.

 

[lector]

There were no 'friends', it was a pizzeria and it was Raffaele and Amanda alone together.

That's actually what I've understood since I got interested in this case last December. However, what then does one make of this testimony (post #7549, just two pages ago)? Is it simply a lie told for some unfathomable reason? Is it Amanda deliberately playing her dazed-&-confused role to the hilt?

LG: All right, I've exhausted this topic. Now, I said we were just coming to the
evening when you were called in, or rather when Raffaele was called in to
the Questura on Nov 5. Where did you come from? Were you having dinner
somewhere? Do you remember?

AK: We were at the apartment of a friend of his, who lived near his house, and
we were having dinner with them, trying, I don't know, to feel a bit of
normality, when Raffaele was called by the police.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

Interesting. This isn't part of the case I'd bothered with much before, but I think perhaps my casual understanding was wrong. I'd thought they'd come straight from having pizza in a cafe/restaurant and that that meal was much later (9pm, say). I'm going to have to look up the whole "it was suspicious that they were found eating pizza" thing now because that doesn't make any sense to me any longer.

 

[stilicho]

What is the issue we are trying to address here: I have kind of lost the point. Is it the time they got to the questura: or when they ate dinner? or whether they attended the vigil?

I am sorry but I am not following the discussion for some reason

It's plain to me. Were RS and AK doing something else while they were supposed to be either (a) at the Questura or (b) at Meredith's vigil? And, by "supposed to be", I mean that they were assumed to be at either of those places but were not and were somewhere else.

And we do want a source!