Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fiona]

Amanda met Lumumba on the 5th: does anyone know what time that was at? She also attended lectures so far as I remember: does anyone know what time that was at? If lectures were at 9 am did she study for the whole morning (including writing the "letter") which was then read out to the class? Did she meet Patrick after class at lunch time? or did any of that happen in the afternoon. I think RS also had classes that day: when were they?

 

[Kermit]

I do fully acknowledge that a PR firm was hired. I am simply stating that people attempt to throw everyone into the same group.

.
Bruce, I know you're into transparency. Could you tell us what is your relation with the persons who provided you with your photos from the case?

.
Bruce hasn't done much posting since I asked that question. We'll all be happy if you find some time to address it.

It's related to the outstanding question to Halides1, which is if he is able to state affirmatively that "Libby" Johnson was "working pro bono", who was she working pro bono for? On what basis is he able to state that so affirmatively? Why can't he say who she was working for?

 

[shuttlt]

By the way, apologies to Bruce, had I read his site more closely I would have saved myself some time. Again, the whole issue of the suspicious pizza wasn't anything that had interested me much until last night.

 

[Jungle Jim]

What is the issue we are trying to address here: I have kind of lost the point. Is it the time they got to the questura: or when they ate dinner? or whether they attended the vigil?

I am sorry but I am not following the discussion for some reason

I am also confused. AK states in her testimony that she and RS were having dinner with friends when the police called RS in. I assume the prosecutor would have challenged her on that point if she was seen in a pizzeria by a policeman at that time. Maybe AK & RS were seen eating in a pizzeria in the afternoon. In any case, what does any of this mean? It seems to me the point that is trying to be made is whether they attended the vigil or not.

 

[shuttlt]

There is also a claim flying about that one of Giobbi's reasons for being suspicious was that Amanda and Raffaele were found eating pizza. The way it is a told it makes no sense. So, I for one would be keen to get to the bottom of it.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Trial testimony. Impressions of Amanda and Raffaele at the station. And of the 'break-in':

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...diths-dead-body-police-chief-tells-trial.html

Further on Amanda's questioning:

Profazio told the court that the decision to question Knox was made four days after the murder because of apparent contradictions in the version of events supplied by her boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito.

The detective was questioned for more than three hours this morning on his conduct of the investigation which he led on 6 November 2007 and the arrest of Knox and Sollecito and a third man, Patrick Lumumba, whom the American student had identified as the killer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/27/knox-admission-kercher-court


Further on Amanda's behaviour and to cement the fact she wasn't required to be at the police station:

Later Monica Napoleone, head of the Perugia murder squad, also described Knox's unusual behaviour at the police station where she had been taken for questioning.

Ms Napoleone said: 'She had complained that she was feeling tired and at that stage I told her that she could go if she wanted.

'She said she wanted to stay, Sollecito was also at the station at the time and she said she wanted to wait for him.

'A few minutes later I walked past a room at the police station where she was waiting and I saw Amanda doing the splits and a cartwheel. It was around 11am on November 5th.

'She and Sollecito had had a bizarre attitude throughout the whole time - they were laughing, kissing and pulling faces at each other...

Ms Napoleone told the court that while at the police station Knox had been 'treated very well' she has claimed that she was beaten, although prosecutor Mignini did not ask her directly if this was true.

Ms Napoleone said: 'She was given water, chamomile tea and breakfast as well, she was given cakes from a vending machine and then taken to the canteen at the police station for something to eat.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...diths-dead-body-police-chief-tells-trial.html

On their behaviour and the fact the police could never get to speak to them alone:

Trans: Catnip

MURDER IN PERUGIA
INVESTIGATORS IN COURT
27 FEBRUARY 2009


Rome - Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox’s phones were switched off [spenti] simultaneously [contemporaneamente] on the night of first November 2007 between 8.00pm and 8.30pm, the night on which Meredith Kercher was killed. Revealing this fact in court today is Domenico Giacinto Profazio, chief of the Perugia Flying Squad at the time and today a witness before the Court of Assizes of Perugia. The ex-director of the Perugia Squad stepped through [ha ricostruito] in court each phase of the investigations, from the moments immediately following the discovery of Mez’s body right up to the subsequent conclusions, the crime scenes, the seizures and the arrest of the accused.
“Immediately after we were seeking to collect as much information as possible on the victim and on the people who were living with with her and in the apartment on the level below,” explained Profazio. “We were trying to piece together [ricostruire] her contacts [amicizie] and her movements up to the moment of her death”. Profazio then recounted for the court Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito’s behaviour on the occasions in which they had been interviewed [convocati] at the police station. “Each time that we would interview one of the two,” said Profazio in court, “a little while later, the other one also turned up”. The former Perugia Flying Squad chief also recalled that on the night of 5th and 6th November (the morning of the 6th saw the triggering of the arrest in the [police’s] dealings with Knox and Sollecito), he had been advised that Amanda had taken it upon herself to turn cartwheels in the room opposite the entrance to the station. “On one occasion Amanda had positioned herself with her legs on top of Raffaele’s,” continued Profazio, “and I told them to stop doing that.”
The two accused were present during today’s hearing: Amanda was wearing a pair of jeans and a violet top. Raffaele, meanwhile, presented himself in court in a pair of brown trousers and a fuchsia jumper. Curt Knox, Amanda’s father, was also in court.

[ Giovani ] 27 Feb 2009

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=5325#p5325

http://www.diregiovani.it/gw/producer/dettaglio.aspx?id_doc=21526


Interesting on many levels. Trans: Catnip

“HERE ARE IS ALL THE EVIDENCE AGAINST AMANDA AND RAFF”.

Before the judge: The three investigators who coordinated the investigations.
PERUGIA28.02.2009

Acting inspector Monica Napoleoni


One entire day for two witnesses (head and deputy-head of the Flyers, Domenico Giacinto Profazio and Marco Chiacchiera) and a half day (the hearing was suspended at 7.35pm while Monica Napoleoni was being questioned), out of seven witnesses in the schedule.

Today will continue with the testimony of those not heard yesterday, that is, Lorena Zugarini, Rita Ficarra, Mauro Bigini (Edgardo Giobbi, from Rome, didn’t turn up). Those booked for today will slide along.

Profazio, 38 years and Chiacchiera, 42 years, stepped through the start [avvio] of the investigations.

Among the curiosities is
– the fact that during the initial investigations a Mahgribi was noted [segnalato], who had washed his clothes and shoes in a laundrette. (“But he had no relation [attinenza] to our investigation,” Chiacchiera assured (the court));
– the fact that inspector Michele Battistelli of the Polpost was asked to have the soles of his own shoes photographed (“To have absolute certainty that he hadn’t entered into Mez’s room, being the only one who had a pair of sport shoes on...”);
– the police hunch/intuition [fiuto] (Armando Finzi and the same Chiacchiera) who decided to seize the knife, from amongst the many that were in the Sollecito household, on which the scientific (police) later detected the DNA of Meredith and Amanda;
– the curiosity that Chiacchiera, on the day of the discovery of the body, used up three phone batteries keeping in touch with various hierarchies and for other obligations [adempimenti];
– that a jar of Vaseline, already partially used up, came to be found on the desk in Mez’s room;
– that a good 36 police officers signed Amanda Knox’s notification of arrest on the morning of 6 November;
– that Amanda’s [typographical error for Meredith’s] neck wound was really horrendous and such as to give unease [fastidio] even to investigators who have seen numerous murders (“She was butchered” - commented Napoleoni).

The three investigators heard yesterday have held their positions, explaining the how and why suspicions came to be directed [si fossero indirizzati], softly softly, towards the two lovers [fidanzatini], but the clashes and jousts [battibecchi =”beak-snapping"] with the defence were not far away (especially with Giulia Bongiorno, Carlo Della Vedova, but also, in a more restrained manner, with Luciano Ghirga and Donatella Donati).

In the attempt to show that the site access and crime scenes were not all mentioned (“The judicial police,” the investigators demurred, “don’t need to mention (things) where the Public Prosecutor was present…”) and that
the police did not enter into the murder scene in a manner that did not contaminate anything, the defenders launched a ring attack.

The police officers have repeated that, each time they entered, they put on gloves and shoe protectors (“But not the suit [tuta]”, objected Bongiorno). Not only that. Bongiorno pointed out to Napoleoni that disposable [monouso=”single-use”] gloves would have had to be changed each time that an object was touched, like the scientific police do. Napoleoni responded that one reckoning [conto] is the work of the judicial police who search for items of an investigative nature, another reckoning, that of the scientific police, whose job is to find prints, blood, latent traces.

On the knife found on 18 December by lawyer Tiziano Tedeschi, in the rear part of the cottage (grounds), Napoleoni remained trenchant: “On that aspect, Zugarini and Gubbiotti will have more to say. What is certain is that Tedeschi proffered a knife with a rounded tip and no handle, like those you use to spread jam on toasted slices [fette biscottate]... [ellipsis in original] Of no investigative interest, at all”. Another witness also mentioned how it appeared partially rusted.

On the matter of Sollecito’s computer, the witnesses stated that from 9.10pm to 5.32am there was, according to the PolPost experts, no human interaction (at all). The defence will show [caleranno] their cards when they will let their experts speak.

On Raffaele and Amanda’s telephone traffic, the three police officers were in agreement: Sollecito’s phone remained inactive from 8.42pm to 6.02am, that of Knox from 8.35pm until 12.03pm [the following afternoon]. Intriguing facts.

“We had a records search done and it resulted in that, prior, Raffaele’s phone was always active until a late hour, up until 11pm and until midnight…[ellipsis in original] That night, his as well as Amanda’s remained mute. Not counting that Raffaele said he received a call from his father on the landline at his house, which doesn’t seem to have been made [che non risulta esserci stata]”.

Clashes, too, on Mez’s bra clasp, which the Scientifica appear to have labelled with a letter of the alphabet during the first search, but which was collected only on 18 December. “I took note of the skyblue mat in Mez’s room, but I did not see the clasp. On the other side on the bright floor, the flesh coloured bra did not make it any easier to see it. I knew,” observed Napoleoni, “that the Scientifica found it that day”.

Bongiorno: “There remains the fact that, with respect to the first labelling, the clasp came to be found in a completely different place in the room…”[ellipsis in original]

Napoleoni referred to a touching particular: namely, that messages from her family were found on Mez’s phone, who, having learned from English television that a student had been killed in Perugia, a co-national of theirs, asked Meredith to call them back to set their minds at peace.

The phrase that made the defence hoist a flag up the mast [i.e., take umbrage, get their goat, etc] was spoken by Chiacchiera: “Amanda had been contradicted by Sollecito and by herself”. Apriti cielo. [“and the heavens opened”]

Elio Clero Bertoldi
[ Corriere dell' Umbria ] 28 Feb 2009

http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news.asp?id=29


On the questioning, roghg Trans: Jools

From AGI:

The Inspector (Rita Ficarra): "Amanda asked me for pen and paper"

"Amanda asked me for paper and pen because 'she had intended to write and she said,' I want to make you a present '." He recalled today in courtroom, the Chief Inspector, Rita Ficarra, employed by the Perugia flying squad, the moment when, on the morning of 6 November 2007, after the detention of Knox and her statements that brought into the investigation Congolese musician Patrick Lumumba, the young student from Seattle, asked to have paper and pen to write and what 'was then termed the' memory of Amanda '.
"Amanda, gave me 'the letter and told me to read it before she was taken to jail - the inspector remembered-. She said that while reading it I could have a more clear idea' of what had happened the night of the crime and what she had wanted to say during the interrogation.
She told us that if we had doubts, we should have make questions before her transfer to prison. "The Amanda’s memorial takes shape a few hours after her interrogation, during which, for the first time, pulls in Lumumba, as the author pointing to the murder of Meredith Kercher.
"In the police under interrogation was Raffaele Sollecito - the inspector remembered-. At some point, my colleagues told me that Sollecito was saying different, diverse things and gave no more an alibi to Amanda. They then told me to hear the girl and ask her what she was doing the evening of 1 November. Amanda was initially surprised. We asked her to show her phone and she naturally did this. We found a message out box, around 20, 20.30 the first of November, sent to Lumumba. When We showed the sms asking who was this person, for a moment she remained looking at it, after which' and 'burst into tears, put her hands on her head and accused him of being the author of the crime". 'It is him ... and' ... and he ' it was him who kill her, "Amanda was then referring to Patrick Lumumba.
The inspector Ficarra underlines "Amanda at the police was not and never been treated badly' and that 'and' she was made to rest and eat '." In the inspector also remembers images of Amanda at the police station, on the evening of November 5. "I saw her near the lift door - the official said - while she was showing her skills' athletics, with the wheel and the split. A behavior that I thought not appropriate to the place and the situation and I reprimanded her. Amanda was also reprimanded because she continued to have a behavior that was not appropriate. In the police station she continued to hug and sbaciucchiarsi (kissing) with Raffaele. During previous testimony, the head of the murder of the police headquarters in Perugia, Monica Napoleoni, had spoken of a women's shoe imprint found on the pillow next to the body of Meredith and never assigned.

http://tinyurl.com/cp2ldp


Going on:

...."Also on Saturday, policewoman Rita Ficarra, testified that Knox grew "bothered and tired" by police questioning.

"I told her off, and I asked her: `Don't you realize we're talking about the murder of a friend of yours?"' Ficarra told the court."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hUwNJptZbnCIsu90VqOzxS7S2fzQD96KL20G0

See also:

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/401716_knox28.html


and

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/401876_Knoxvogt01.html?source=rss

 

[Kestrel]

I am also confused. AK states in her testimony that she and RS were having dinner with friends when the police called RS in. I assume the prosecutor would have challenged her on that point if she was seen in a pizzeria by a policeman at that time. Maybe AK & RS were seen eating in a pizzeria in the afternoon. In any case, what does any of this mean? It seems to me the point that is trying to be made is whether they attended the vigil or not.

The claim that started us down this track was that Amanda had a pizza immediately before being questioned, thus she had no need for food or drink during her interrogation.

 

[shuttlt]

FAlcanelli,

I think the 11am in yoursecond quote should be an 11pm.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Amanda met Lumumba on the 5th: does anyone know what time that was at? She also attended lectures so far as I remember: does anyone know what time that was at? If lectures were at 9 am did she study for the whole morning (including writing the "letter") which was then read out to the class? Did she meet Patrick after class at lunch time? or did any of that happen in the afternoon. I think RS also had classes that day: when were they?

A couple of excerpts from Amanda's testimony:

LG: Do you remember the homework you wrote on the 5th?

AK: Yes, I was in school, and for the university we had to write a letter...

LG: We have this letter, do you remember it?

AK: Yes.
_____________________________________________________

CP: Let's talk about November 5. Okay, on November 5 you met Patrick in front of the Universita per Stranieri.

AK: After class, yes.

CP: Can you tell us about that meeting and what you said to each other?

AK: So, I was on my way to Raffaele's house, and I crossed Piazza Grimana and he was standing outside of the Universita per Stranieri. He joined me, and asked me "How are you, what's going on, where have you been?" and all that. "Do you want to talk to journalists?" I said no, I wasn't doing well, I couldn't really talk to them, the police told me not to talk to them. Then he asked me about the police, for example. I told him they were interrogating me and I couldn't talk. Then I asked him, I told him I didn't feel like going out at night, I didn't feel like going to work. He said that was okay. That's all. Then I went to Raffaele's house.

CP: Is it true that Patrick asked you on that morning only if you wanted to talk to the La Stampa Straniera?

AK: No. He also asked me what the police had been asking me.
______________________________________________________

From the above testimony it would seem that RS was back at his apartment. However, the time of the encounter with Patrick is not established.

 

[Jungle Jim]

The claim that started us down this track was that Amanda had a pizza immediately before being questioned, thus she had no need for food or drink during her interrogation.

I don't know what she ate, but according to AK herself she was eating dinner when the police called RS to come in to the police station. Thus, food would not have been an overriding concern of hers.

 

[Fiona]

The claim that started us down this track was that Amanda had a pizza immediately before being questioned, thus she had no need for food or drink during her interrogation.

And she testified she had dinner that evening with RS and friends and that RS got a call to go to the police station during it: so it would appear she did not need to eat unless you believe that she had dinner in the afternoon and they did not go to the questura till a long time afterwards. Is that what you think happened?

 

[Fulcanelli]

The claim that started us down this track was that Amanda had a pizza immediately before being questioned, thus she had no need for food or drink during her interrogation.

I don't think that was the foundation of the point being made, although someone did point out helpfully, that it meant she'd eaten.

Maybe in America, police stations lay on silver service post 11 pm...is that the case?

 

[Fulcanelli]

I don't know what she ate, but according to AK herself she was eating dinner when the police called RS to come in to the police station. Thus, food would not have been an overriding concern of hers.

Yes, according to Amanda herself she was eating pizza when they were called (Kestrel: is Amanda finally a liar now, or is she telling the truth, which is it?).

Except, the one false fact, is that it wasn't at a friend's but rather out at a public place. The 'friends' don't exist, if they had, they'd have been witnesses.

 

[Fulcanelli]

AK: So, I was on my way to Raffaele's house, and I crossed Piazza Grimana and he was standing outside of the Universita per Stranieri. He joined me, and asked me "How are you, what's going on, where have you been?" and all that. "Do you want to talk to journalists?" I said no, I wasn't doing well, I couldn't really talk to them, the police told me not to talk to them. Then he asked me about the police, for example. I told him they were interrogating me and I couldn't talk. Then I asked him, I told him I didn't feel like going out at night, I didn't feel like going to work. He said that was okay. That's all. Then I went to Raffaele's house.

Except for her email home to all and sundry

 

[Fiona]

Yes, according to Amanda herself she was eating pizza when they were called (Kestrel: is Amanda finally a liar now, or is she telling the truth, which is it?).

Except, the one false fact, is that it wasn't at a friend's but rather out at a public place. The 'friends' don't exist, if they had, they'd have been witnesses.

I did not see where she said what she was eating: but it hardly matters. But why would the friends have been witnesses unless the time they went to the questura was at issue?

 

[Fulcanelli]

FAlcanelli,

I think the 11am in yoursecond quote should be an 11pm.

Maybe

 

[Kestrel]

I don't know what she ate, but according to AK herself she was eating dinner when the police called RS to come in to the police station. Thus, food would not have been an overriding concern of hers.

You are presuming that the police called Raffaele it was late in the evening and they told him to come immediately. That is what the PMF timeline indicates, but there is no supporting evidence to back it up. The link I posted earlier indicates the pizza meal and phone call happened at 3 PM. The police could have called in the afternoon and Raffaele agreed to come in late that evening.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I did not see where she said what she was eating: but it hardly matters. But why would the friends have been witnesses unless the time they went to the questura was at issue?

You've not been reading the thread lately?

But I think you're right...this is an issue being manufactured by some. The history revisionists (oooh, she was up the station from 5 PM rubbish).

Of course, it's true, the idiots weren't in the court room, so it wasn't an issue 'in court'.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You are presuming that the police called Raffaele it was late in the evening and they told him to come immediately. That is what the PMF timeline indicates, but there is no supporting evidence to back it up. The link I posted earlier indicates the pizza meal and phone call happened at 3 PM. The police could have called in the afternoon and Raffaele agreed to come in late that evening.

Are you 'really' going to persist with this nonsense? When does the sophistry end?

When you require sophistry to argue your point, you have none. You have been doing this for page after page after page in this thread. Kestrel, do you really give a fig's ear about truth? What is your dog in this race? Can you let us know?

 

[shuttlt]

Except, the one false fact, is that it wasn't at a friend's but rather out at a public place. The 'friends' don't exist, if they had, they'd have been witnesses.

OK. That would sort out the Giobbi quote if there was a good source for it.