Split Thread Barbra Streisand, Sean Penn, truthers?

[Cicero]

You mean this post?





That's nothing to do with letting it happen - it's all AFTER 9/11. You were already asked how this proves LIHOP. Will you answer now?

What? Mentioning Marvin Bush is all about pre 911. Unger is suggesting that Bush wanted to cover for the Bin Laden family since Unger is suggesting that Bush knew them to be involved in 911. Are you deliberately being obtuse? You must be new to troother crap.

"How was it possible that, just as President Bush declared a no-holds-barred global war on terror that would send hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops to Afghanistan and Iraq, and just as Osama bin Laden became Public Enemy No. 1 and the target of a worldwide manhunt, the White House would expedite the departure of so many potential witnesses, including two dozen relatives of the man behind the attack itself?"
Craig Unger

 

[Orphia Nay]

What? Mentioning Marvin Bush is all about pre 911. Unger is suggesting that Bush wanted to cover for the Bin Laden family since Unger is suggesting that Bush knew them to be involved in 911. Are you deliberately being obtuse? You must be new to troother crap.

I'm addressing the 'evidence' you've presented. You are suggesting what Unger is suggesting. That's not evidence.

"How was it possible that, just as President Bush declared a no-holds-barred global war on terror that would send hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops to Afghanistan and Iraq, and just as Osama bin Laden became Public Enemy No. 1 and the target of a worldwide manhunt, the White House would expedite the departure of so many potential witnesses, including two dozen relatives of the man behind the attack itself?"
Craig Unger

This is slightly more trutherish, because it's a typical JAQ-off that we've seen thousands of times before. But it does not go so far as to claim Bush knowingly let the attacks happen. It just is incredulous that they let Saudis leave the country.

What page of the book is this on?

 

[alienentity]

I'm addressing the 'evidence' you've presented. You are suggesting what Unger is suggesting. That's not evidence.



This is slightly more trutherish, because it's a typical JAQ-off that we've seen thousands of times before. But it does not go so far as to claim Bush knowingly let the attacks happen. It just is incredulous that they let Saudis leave the country.

What page of the book is this on?

And besides, the claim that Barbra endorses all of Unger's statements is very tenuous. She's done nothing of the sort.


This thread is a dead-end as far as Barbra is concerned.

 

[Alan]

Never said "unintentionally," but of course you knew that or you would have posted the quote.

Wow, an attempt at mind-reading. You're as good as the pros.

I didn't say you used the word "unintentionally". I quoted your words before and didn't get a response.

Babs being a LIHOPer (which is one who believes Bush didn't act out of incompetence, indifference, or malevolence) qualifies her as one who embraces the notion that 911 was "an inside job."

"Incompetence" is the main word there for me, which I'm asking you about.

Do you think that "incompetence" belongs in that definition? How could somebody accidentally do something on purpose?

 

[willhaven]

I can explain it to you, but I can't make you understand. These are Truth Movement arguments that have been thoroughly debunked. Mr. Streisand says check out a troofer website and JREF skeptics peg him as a troofer, while Babs tells her fans to read Unger's book that makes the same troofer arguments and somehow she is inoculated against the label of troofer. Fascinating.

Does Unger's book say that the Bush administration let 9/11 happen on purpose? Does Babs say that the Bush administration let 9/11 happen on purpose?

She very well may be a LIHOPer, but without a direct quote, we can't know for certain.

Really, this is playing out like the MSNBC thread from last year. You feel that you have sufficient evidence to come to a conclusion that Babs is a LIHOPer. Without Babs saying "I believe Bush knew ahead of time and let it happen" I think it's speculation. It may very well be a correct assumption that Babs is a LIHOPer, but it's still speculation.

In all honesty, I don't care if Babs is a truther or not. I don't care much for what any celebrity has to say politically. It just irks me when someone claims to know something for certain when they don't.

 

[dudalb]

Again.... Penn is a political loon. He's a Bush basher. He's a Hugo Chavez apologist. What more do 9/11 truthers need in their criteria book to claim he supports their cause? I've argued with a ton of total loons in the last couple of years I've started actively debating politics, they don't always fit one specific bill. The fact that other conspiracy groups latch on for a ride with his nuttery shouldn't be at all surprising either, I'm not sure when any of that was ever new.

There is more then enough evidence that Penn is a idiot without making him our to be a Truther,his statements prasing Chavez for throwing his opponents into jail should be enough to put him on anybody's "Political Loon List".

 

[Lurker]

In all honesty, I don't care if Babs is a truther or not. I don't care much for what any celebrity has to say politically. It just irks me when someone claims to know something for certain when they don't.

I am with you. I don't care for Streisand one way or another. She is of no importance. But, like you, it does irk me when people ascribe odd positions to a public figure that they have in no way shown to be true. It is tantamount to libel.

I think Cicero is so deep in his political beliefs that he can no longer objectively look at the evidence and see it as anything but LIHOP. The fact that everyone here, conservative and liberal alike on this thread, are all telling him he lacks evidence has no effect on him. Frankly, if I were the sole person interpreting something a certain way I would at least reconsider what I am thinking in the light of overwhelming opposition.

I have no horse in this race. If Streisand came out tommorrow and said Bush was the puppetmaster of 9/11 I'd shrug my shoulders and cluck my tonuge at the idiocy of Streisand.

 

[Cicero]

Why does the right always slam Barbra Streisand- the woman is seldom if ever in in the public eye, and rarely gives interviews- she's hardly a vocal advocate like Penn...

Sure. Babs would never think to use her concerts as a political platform to bash Bush. Why would she do that when people paid to her her sing?


"On Monday evening Barbra Streisand took a carefully plotted step down from the imperial pedestal she has occupied for decades, and stumbled. The biggest miscalculation was the appearance, late in the show at Madison Square Garden, of a George W. Bush impersonator (Steve Bridges) whom Ms. Streisand, an ardent Democrat, interrogated in a tone that tried to be witty and failed."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/arts/music/11barb.html

 

[funk de fino]

Sure. Babs would never think to use her concerts as a political platform to bash Bush. Why would she do that when people paid to her her sing?


"On Monday evening Barbra Streisand took a carefully plotted step down from the imperial pedestal she has occupied for decades, and stumbled. The biggest miscalculation was the appearance, late in the show at Madison Square Garden, of a George W. Bush impersonator (Steve Bridges) whom Ms. Streisand, an ardent Democrat, interrogated in a tone that tried to be witty and failed."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/arts/music/11barb.html

So what? Got nothing yet? Am I a truther because I think Bush and his admin were incompetent prior to 911 and indirectly led to the deaths of US and International citizens?

 

[Cicero]

So what? Got nothing yet? Am I a truther because I think Bush and his admin were incompetent prior to 911 and indirectly led to the deaths of US and International citizens?

What does that mean?

Is Bush's "incompetence" the reason you blame him for not shooting down FL 77 after being informed of the attack on WTC?


Do you blame Pearl Harbor on FDR's "incompetence? "

 

[Cicero]

I
The fact that everyone here, conservative and liberal alike on this thread, are all telling him he lacks evidence has no effect on him..

Just for laughs, before you attempt to speak for "everyone" you might consider actually reading all the posts in this thread.

As polarizing as 9/11 is, I'd say I have to agree with this.

IMHO, the OP has proven his case to a reasonable degree.

Libs here just don't like the fact that just cuz "they" have seen the light that one can hate Bush but still come to the conclusion that there was no inside job, that others with their same political beliefs can't separate the 2 issues.

It's the same as the no planer loons vs all other twoofs. They all agree that it was an inside job, but they all have differing levels of stupidity.

I think Cicero has a point here. Actually, 12 points.

Hi all!

 

[Bell]

Sorry sport, I forgot to [/sarcasm] my post.

I was referring to the Cicero as a unit of measurement.

 

[Alan]

Again:

Babs being a LIHOPer (which is one who believes Bush didn't act out of incompetence, indifference, or malevolence) qualifies her as one who embraces the notion that 911 was "an inside job."

Do you think that "incompetence" belongs in that definition?

 

[Cicero]

Babs doesn't appear to be a stranger to conspiracy woo.

An excerpt from the November 4 New York Post “Page Six” item, by Richard Johnson with Paula Froelich and Chris Wilson

"Now liberal activist Barbra Streisand is privately saying that Sen. Paul Wellstone's plane crash was "no accident."

"I was shocked but, knowing a bit about her, not surprised by her statement," a witness told The Post's Braden Keil. "She said there's more to this than meets the eye."

Wellstone, his wife and daughter, and five others died on Oct. 25 in a small plane crash as they were making campaign stops in his home state of Minnesota. If his replacement, Walter Mondale, doesn't win tomorrow's election, the Democratic Party could lose conrol of the Senate.

Streisand expressed her paranoid conspiracy theory to an audience of interior designers bidding on the chance to decorate a planned addition to her Malibu estate."

 

[willhaven]

So does that make her a LIHOPer or a MIHOPer?

 

[TjW]

I suppose it's also conclusive evidence that she doesn't believe men went to the moon, the US government had foreknowledge of the Japanese plan to attack Pearl Harbor, there was more than one assassin of JFK, chemtrails are killing people, and lizard people are actually running the world.

 

[funk de fino]

What does that mean?

No statement of inside job from Babs yet.

Is Bush's "incompetence" the reason you blame him for not shooting down FL 77 after being informed of the attack on WTC?

Bush and his admin were guilty of incompetence that indirectly caused the deaths of US and international citizens. Does that make me a truther?

Do you blame Pearl Harbor on FDR's "incompetence? "

OT. I dont know what warnings they got.

 

[funk de fino]

Babs doesn't appear to be a stranger to conspiracy woo.

An excerpt from the November 4 New York Post “Page Six” item, by Richard Johnson with Paula Froelich and Chris Wilson

"Now liberal activist Barbra Streisand is privately saying that Sen. Paul Wellstone's plane crash was "no accident."

"I was shocked but, knowing a bit about her, not surprised by her statement," a witness told The Post's Braden Keil. "She said there's more to this than meets the eye."

Wellstone, his wife and daughter, and five others died on Oct. 25 in a small plane crash as they were making campaign stops in his home state of Minnesota. If his replacement, Walter Mondale, doesn't win tomorrow's election, the Democratic Party could lose conrol of the Senate.

Streisand expressed her paranoid conspiracy theory to an audience of interior designers bidding on the chance to decorate a planned addition to her Malibu estate."

Off topic nonsense again and still no statement or evidence for inside jobber.

 

[Cicero]

No statement of inside job from Babs yet.


Bush and his admin were guilty of incompetence that indirectly caused the deaths of US and international citizens. Does that make me a truther?

You did not answer my question. Is Bush's "incompetence" the reason you blame him for not shooting down FL 77 after being informed of the attack on WTC?

OT. I dont know what warnings they got.

FDR knew that the Japanese embassy in D.C. had been instructed to deliver a certain message to the U.S. government at 1 p.m. on 12/7/41 and then destroy their "Magic" cipher machine and secret documents. FDR knew something of monumental importance was about to happen, but he did not know exactly where this attack would occur.

How is Bush 43 any more at fault for 9/11 than FDR is for 12/7l?

CTers are convinced FDR allowed the attack on Pearl. CTers are convinced Bush 43 allowed 911. Bush bashers are satisfied that 911 occurred because Bush was too stupid to do anything to prevent the attack before it started, and too stupid to do anything about the attack when it was going on. FDR, on the other hand, historically, is not the target of criticism and blame for the 2000 deaths on 12/7 that Bush 43 is for the 3000 deaths on 9/11. If the POTUS responsible for the security of Americans 2001, surely the POTUS was equally responsible back in 1941.

 

[funk de fino]

You did not answer my question. Is Bush's "incompetence" the reason you blame him for not shooting down FL 77 after being informed of the attack on WTC?

I dont blame him for that. But then I am ex military and I know he had no control over that part once it was going. I am accusing him of pre attack incompetence. I know I am not the only one eh?

FDR knew that the Japanese embassy in D.C. had been instructed to deliver a certain message to the U.S. government at 1 p.m. on 12/7/41 and then destroy their "Magic" cipher machine and secret documents. FDR knew something of monumental importance was about to happen, but he did not know exactly where this attack would occur.

OT again with massive speculation.

How is Bush 43 any more at fault for 9/11 than FDR is for 12/7l?

CTers are convinced FDR allowed the attack on Pearl. CTers are convinced Bush 43 allowed 911. Bush bashers are satisfied that 911 occurred because Bush was too stupid to do anything to prevent the attack before it started, and too stupid to do anything about the attack when it was going on. FDR, on the other hand, historically, is not the target of criticism and blame for the 2000 deaths on 12/7 that Bush 43 is for the 3000 deaths on 9/11. If the POTUS responsible for the security of Americans 2001, surely the POTUS was equally responsible back in 1941.

Bush and the admin FUBARED and you know it. If you want to say FDR did as well then knock yourself out. I dont care. All you have here is two wrongs make a right. And no proclamations from Babs yet.

Truthers make claims with no evidence and that is exactly what you have done here. I dont care one way or the other whether Babs is a truther or not. You made a claim and have not supported it.