It's a Civil War: What We Do Now

[Dancing David]

You know, your use of the term "Tea Baggers" says more about you than them.

You know, your use of the term "Leftist" says more about you than them.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

LOL! What's the problem, Joe? You don't know what Mark To Market is? You don't know why it's relevant to this topic? Are you just one of the many in that situation? If so, how can you possibly have an enlightened opinion about the need for the sort of reform we actually need ... bank or otherwise?

The problem is your attempt to change the topic from my point. (I note that you keep berating people for going off topic.)

Again, my point is that the Republicans criticized the Democrats for "not listening" to the people (and then frequently misrepresent what the polls say). I'm pointing out that if Republicans decide to sit out and not participate in banking reform, they're not listening to the people.

Your response is that the people are ignorant of the issues. I noted that you really don't much like democracy.

You're playing a double standard here. The "will of the people" only counts sometimes. Other times, it's only "enlightened opinions" that count.

What are you going on about? If someone hurts the environment out there, I've no doubt they will be punished. But last I heard there have been no reports of injury, damage or arrests.

I'm not going on about anything. You seem to be misconstruing an offhand remark intentionally.

And by the way, I find it rather hilarious that you are soooooo worried about 10,000 people doing damage to the *fragile* environment of a small plot of land south of Las Vegas over a single weekend, yet haven't started a thread to condemn what happens in the desert town of Quartzite Arizona each January and February when over a million people show up in motor homes and what not. Here's yet another case of a leftist with misplaced priorities.

I haven't started a thread about the Searchlight protest either. Get a grip, BaC. You're really grasping at straws.

I made an offhand remark that it would be fitting if small government protesters got in trouble with the feds for something like this. The original article--written before the protest in Searchlight started--pointed out that there's a $25,000 fine for even picking up one of these turtles.

 

[MattusMaximus]

So.... conservatives are seceding form the union?

No, we're just going to fight the left for it's control.

Isn't that why we have elections, to peacefully determine who is in control of our political process?

So why all this silly talk of "civil war"?

 

[fullflavormenthol]

They call themselves Tea Baggers!!! Just because some of them got wise to the fact that the rest of us laugh at them and got all embarrassed doesn't mean I have to walk on egg shells and ask them what stupid name they wish to be called everytime I have to talk about the Teasies.

Oh and I love how BaC lectures us about the use of the name Tea Bagger while everything is "leftist" this and "leftist" that, all while quoting an article that calls for calling the Democrats "Social Democrats".

 

[Newtons Bit]

Isn't that why we have elections, to peacefully determine who is in control of our political process?

So why all this silly talk of "civil war"?

Maybe the civil part is referring to being polite and courteous and not yelling things out during the SOTU address or vote calls in the Senate?

Oh, wait......

 

[Dorian Gray]

How ironic given that we just witnessed democrat leaders ram a health care bill through Congress (by the slimiest of margins and using every slimy trick in the book to do it) when poll after poll showed that a clear majority of American citizens were firmly against passage of the bill. Yes, how ironic.

That's true. Democrats in Congress were barely in the majority. You know what's another term for barely being in the majority?

Being in the majority.

 

[Thunder]

How ironic given that we just witnessed democrat leaders ram a health care bill through Congress (by the slimiest of margins and using every slimy trick in the book to do it) when poll after poll showed that a clear majority of American citizens were firmly against passage of the bill. Yes, how ironic.

ram through? we've been talking about this damn thing for more than a year.

countless debates, countless town-hall meetings, and it was approved by the House...twice!!

 

[fullflavormenthol]

You know if you were to have asked me if I was for the health care bill I would have told you no, and I suppose people would have counted me as that "majority against the bill". The problem is that I was against the bill because I wanted it to do more (yes more of those evil "socialist policies"), which brings me to my complaint about the "majority against the bill"; being against the bill isn't the same as being against health care reform.

 

[Meed]

Non-violent civil war? What's next, calorie-free food and solar powered nightlights?

It'll all end in madness I tell ya.

 

[BeAChooser]

You know, your use of the term "Leftist" says more about you than them.

Your seeing no difference between the use of the term "Leftist" and "Tea Bagger" says more about you than me, David.

 

[Thunder]

does anyone here think we need a violent Civil War..to "take back America"?

 

[Tricky]

Non-violent civil war? What's next, calorie-free food and solar powered nightlights?

Actually, that's the only kind there should be. After, the term "civil war" has always been a bit of an oxymoron. Most wars aren't very civil at all.

 

[Thunder]

Actually, that's the only kind there should be. After, the term "civil war" has always been a bit of an oxymoron. Most wars aren't very civil at all.

"What's so civil about war...anyways?"

-Axel Rose

 

[tyr_13]

Maybe the civil part is referring to being polite and courteous and not yelling things out during the SOTU address or vote calls in the Senate?

Oh, wait......

Actually the opposition to the tea party(ies) has been very civil. They've even set up cooling and refreshment tents in one very dry location currently flooded with Tea Partiers. So maybe the civil is only from one side? Or a little bit from both sides?

---------------------------------

Today in the break room HLN had a thing about the Tea Partiers who are traveling to that town and I made the comment that I wished I had enough time and money to drive and fly around the country bitching about the government taking some of my money.

 

[BeAChooser]

The problem is your attempt to change the topic from my point.

You claimed that it was the "will of the people" that there be banking reform (proving whatever). Maybe so … but my point is that if the will of the people is controlled by the media and the mainstream portion of that media on which democrats largely depend for their news and views has grossly misinformed the people as to the real facts, then the "will" is not based on information but propaganda. And that could lead to the wrong action. And that should concern you Joe … assuming you are old-style democrat. If you are an Obama style leftist, then it might not concern you because leftists in large part depend on progaganda to sell their agenda to the public. And the fact that democrats (at least the leaders of the party) should now be recognized to be mostly "leftists" instead of "liberals" is indeed what this thread is about. As well as what to do about it.

Your response is that the people are ignorant of the issues. I noted that you really don't much like democracy.

Thomas Jefferson - "A strong democracy depends on an informed electorate."

Look Joe, even the folks at democraticunderground seem to recognize that

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1299240

A vibrant democracy depends on an informed electorate

Hence my concern about whether those folks seeking to demonize banks really are informed. If they don't even know what Mark To Market means (and I suspect most of them don't), then they aren't informed. They are just being manipulated and democracy is in real trouble. So let me throw your question back at you, Joe. Do you *really* like democracy?

You're playing a double standard here. The "will of the people" only counts sometimes. Other times, it's only "enlightened opinions" that count.

But unlike the banking case, the will of the people in the case where their expressed view is that the health care bill shouldn't have been passed was based on information about it, not lack of information. And the more information they got, the more they disliked the bill.

You seem to be misconstruing an offhand remark intentionally.

I fail to see what I misconstrued.

I made an offhand remark that it would be fitting if small government protesters got in trouble with the feds for something like this. The original article--written before the protest in Searchlight started--pointed out that there's a $25,000 fine for even picking up one of these turtles.

Tortoises. And did that original article mention what happens in Quartzite each and every year? Seems to me that if their concern was environmental damage, their article should have been about that, rather than just being propaganda designed to attack a movement that simply want's to return the US to the Constitution that the founder's wrote.

 

[BeAChooser]

They call themselves Tea Baggers!!!

Don't be disingenious. The vast majority of conservatives find the term extremely offensive. Certainly any who know what the term ... used by folks who probably mostly vote democrat in elections ... references. I think anyone who does know and uses it to attack a group that innocently used the term to refer to a very patriotic moment in American history is simply despicable. And surely every one here at JREF knows. So no excuses, FFM. You use it here and your use says more about you than the Tea Party movement members.

 

[Thunder]

I think anyone who does know and uses it to attack a group that innocently used the term to refer to a very patriotic moment in American history is simply despicable.

don't make me laugh.

they are no more "patriotic" than Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, and Jeff Rense.

 

[joobz]

Don't be disingenious. The vast majority of conservatives find the term extremely offensive.

And leftist is offensive to a fairly moderate position.

Certainly any who know what the term ... used by folks who probably mostly vote democrat in elections ... references. I think anyone who does know and uses it to attack a group that innocently used the term to refer to a very patriotic moment in American history is simply despicable.

Anyone who uses the term leftist knows exactly what image the term is meant to invoke (e.g., lenin...stalin...) I think anyone who does know and uses it to attack a group that innocently used a term (democrat) to refer to a very patriotic love of our governmental system is simply despicable.

And surely every one here at JREF knows. So no excuses, FFM. You use it here and your use says more about you than the Tea Party movement members.

And surely, everyone here at JREF knows. So no excuses, BAC. You use it here and your use says more about you than the democrats.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Fine from now on I will type it Tea Party (Formerly Tea Baggers), I am more than willing to be civil.

More than the OP which calls for Democrats to be called "Social Democrats".

 

[BenBurch]

Why don't we just call them The Baggers?