Toddler Dies After Mistaking Gun For Realistic Wii Controller

[DJW]

Army bases are heavy on gun control. The soldiers and police that had guns were allowed to because of their jobs. Everyone else but the shooter was unarmed by rule.


@scott--my S&W .38 scandium titanium revolver has no hammer and a thirteen pound trigger. My 7 yr old cannot pull the trigger.

 

[Drudgewire]

I thought must issue states got rid of the whole convincing local law enforcement thing. And what are your state laws relevant if you are in another state?

A state won't agree to reciprocity with a state who doesn't follow at least the same basic guidelines as theirs.

Except in states that are such strong believers in proper American masculinity that they know that it is wrong to ask people to avoid conflict.

Those who are going to break the law with a concealed handgun aren't going to worry about a piece of paper that says they can have one.

Which states would those be?

 

[ponderingturtle]

I stand corrected, but someone with a gun stopped him.

Still killed a bunch of people anyway.

Dudalb, do you have the facepalm picture you usually use?

The point is that everyone draws lines about what is acceptable vs unacceptable in terms of personal weapons allowed legally. You draw it so that you are ok with only criminals having bombs, but not handguns. But it is arbitrary and others draw the line differently from you.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Which states would those be?

I know florida and texas are ones. The whole stand your ground laws, removing legal requirement for people to try to avoid conflict.

 

[roger]

A state won't agree to reciprocity with a state who doesn't follow at least the same basic guidelines as theirs.

Utah in particular will recognize a CC permit from any state.

BTW, wikipedia seems to do a good job of documenting all of the various state laws concerning CC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

 

[ServiceSoon]

I'm almost positive you need some training regardless of where you live. Even Florida, who has by far the least restrictive laws, at least requires you to have prior military experience or taken a hunter safety course prior to recieving a CWP if you don't take their class or one by a certified trainer.

I've been wrong before, so if someone can provide evidence of a state that will just hand one over without any training feel free. v[qimg]http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/shobon.gif[/qimg]v

I have a lifetime carry permit in Indiana, no training required.

 

[Pardalis]

I don't understand something.

When I was about 7, a friend's father who was a policeman showed me his unloaded gun, I could hardly hold it up and I couldn't pull the trigger at all.

How can a toddler have the strength to hold such a gun and pull?

 

[rwguinn]

I don't understand something.

When I was about 7, a friend's father who was a policeman showed me his unloaded gun, I could hardly hold it up and I couldn't pull the trigger at all.

How can a toddler have the strength to hold such a gun and pull?

It's a S&W, without the grip safety. She probably was pulling it toward herself with finger in the trigger guard while the table did the holding.

 

[ServiceSoon]

Bull. I named a very specific lobbying organization, it sells no products at all, it just lobby's on behalf of the beliefs of its contributes. Remember corporations are people too. Look it must be popular because all the attentions lawmakers give to it. How can anything


It passed like all constitutional amendments pass by actions of lawmaker.

And of course the run on guns a year ago because Obama was elected was clearly a result of highly educated people with a profound understanding of public policy.

What's the lobby you spoke of? The Pharmacudical Lobby?

The mechanics/methods of how such laws are passed have changed. Take communication for example. Voters can be a lot more educated about an issue (for both viewpoints) in less time than 100 years ago.

WHen you have members of the house and senate writing a letter to Obama, Eric Holder that specifically say they will NOT support anymore infringements upon the RKBA, that is the constituents demanding this. These representatives know that if they vote for such restrictions, they will loose their political position. It's a loosing position for Dems and they know it, why don't you? This is actually kind of sad because I know a lot of people who would vote for Democrats if it wasn't for their anti-gun stance.

The only reason the NRA is such a powerful lobby is because of it's members. Members. Members. The NRA isn't magical.

You stated that the majority of Americans are "pro-gun." For some reason you think that George Soros funding some gun control group is evidence for that fact. I fail to see the connection.

The people who are pro-gun are a lot more vocal and willing to spend money to protect what they believe is their right. That's the money side. There is a lot more money in pro-gun than anti-gun politics. A large percentage of the money that the anti-gun side receives are donations from a handful of individuals or corporations that have been setup by individuals. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

Read above in this post about the letter that senators and house representatives sent Obama and Eric Holder. If there are so many passionate people that are anti-gun then why wasn't a similar letter sent for their position?

There is also various rasmussen polls. This isn't the most scientific method, but is about as good as it gets AFAIK.

 

[Pardalis]

It's a S&W, without the grip safety. She probably was pulling it toward herself with finger in the trigger guard while the table did the holding.

Are these things light enough for a toddler to hold and pull on the trigger?

 

[ServiceSoon]

I don't understand something.

When I was about 7, a friend's father who was a policeman showed me his unloaded gun, I could hardly hold it up and I couldn't pull the trigger at all.

How can a toddler have the strength to hold such a gun and pull?

I never understood this. A loaded revolver is loaded and ready to shoot. A simple pull of the trigger is all that's needed.

A pistol with rounds in the magazine and inserted into the gun isn't loaded (unless you're a democrat who writes laws) and is a lot more safer for a toddler to play with. I wouldn't recommend it, but it would be a lot more difficult for a child to pull the slide, load a round in the chamber and then pull the trigger. I never leave a wheel gun outside the safe.

 

[roger]

I don't understand something.

When I was about 7, a friend's father who was a policeman showed me his unloaded gun, I could hardly hold it up and I couldn't pull the trigger at all.

How can a toddler have the strength to hold such a gun and pull?

trigger pull can run anywhere from ounces to over 10 pounds. Also, many guns today are made with a lot of polymer and/or aluminum, making them very light. Even if the stock gun has a stout trigger, many take them to gunsmiths for a trigger job, and it is easy to do it yourself with widely available kits. Some of the smaller guns weigh less than a pound these days.

There's another aspect called double/single action - these guns have a strong trigger pull if the hammer is not cocked, but have a crisp light trigger if the hammer is cocked. I don't know if that applies to the gun in this incident.

 

[grunion]

The people who are pro-gun are a lot more vocal and willing to spend money to protect what they believe is their right. That's the money side. There is a lot more money in pro-gun than anti-gun politics. A large percentage of the money that the anti-gun side receives are donations from a handful of individuals or corporations that have been setup by individuals. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

The only thing I "can't accept" is your contention that the "majority of Americans are pro-gun," until you provide a shred of evidence to support that statement. No apology necessary, just evidence.

 

[Drudgewire]

I know florida and texas are ones. The whole stand your ground laws, removing legal requirement for people to try to avoid conflict.

Stand your ground refers to not having to run and hide in your closet if someone breaks into your house (or if you have a very friendly jury, your neighbor's house but you're taking a huge risk there).

That's not the same thing at all as "showing your masculinity" and not backing away from a potential fight, which concealed carriers absolutely have an obligation to do in every state that allows CCW. Otherwise pulling a gun is considered "escalation" and it's earned you a homicide charge.

Utah in particular will recognize a CC permit from any state.

Really? Considering they have a more restrictive test than anyone... you can take "the Utah CWP course" which allows you to carry in every state but... oh wait, that would mean they have reciprocity with everyone wouldn't it?

 

[rwguinn]

I never understood this. A loaded revolver is loaded and ready to shoot. A simple pull of the trigger is all that's needed.

A pistol with rounds in the magazine and inserted into the gun isn't loaded (unless you're a democrat who writes laws) and is a lot more safer for a toddler to play with. I wouldn't recommend it, but it would be a lot more difficult for a child to pull the slide, load a round in the chamber and then pull the trigger. I never leave a wheel gun outside the safe.

It was not a revolver, from the reports.
Even a revolver, unless the hammer is already pulled back, is not easily fired by a toddler-lot of effort in making double action work.
And if, as reported, the guy was looking into a noise in the night, he likely jacked a round into the chamber, then didn't clear it when he put it down. Stupid, all the way

Are these things light enough for a toddler to hold and pull on the trigger?

Probably not, BUT!
She didn't have to hold it. It was on a table, she was shot in the chest. A coffee or end table would be about chest high on a 3 year old.

 

[roger]

Stand your ground refers to not having to run and hide in your closet if someone breaks into your house (or if you have a very friendly jury, your neighbor's house but you're taking a huge risk there).

The problem is that the poster you are responding too seems to be conflating CC and home defense. Castle laws have nothing to do with concealed carry. As you say, CC has pretty stringent restrictions. Get in a shouting, and then shoving match with somebody. Good luck to you in the case you need to use lethal force against that person - you have a duty to defuse when carrying. OTOH, castle laws recognize (I know, loaded term) that by the time somebody has broken in they have already created a dangerous situation and have used force.

Really? Considering they have a more restrictive test than anyone... you can take "the Utah CWP course" which allows you to carry in every state but... oh wait, that would mean they have reciprocity with everyone wouldn't it?

I'm open to correction, but that is how I read 76-10-523.2.b.
That has nothing to do with formal reciprocity, which they only have with some states.


edit: I should share Utah's webpage on concealed carry and reciprocity: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQother.html

 

[dudalb]

The only thing I "can't accept" is your contention that the "majority of Americans are pro-gun," until you provide a shred of evidence to support that statement. No apology necessary, just evidence.

That the vast majority of Democrats don't even talk about Gun Control should tell you something.

The Anti Gun Groups might be well funded or the might not be, but their political clout is at a all time low. Most Dems consider Gun Control to be sudden death on the election polls and won't touch the issue with a ten foot pole.

 

[dudalb]

This is just part of the regular cull of children that the US deems to be acceptable in order to maintain its violent addiction to weapons.

If you demand a gun culture you get dead children. In other words if you don't look after your children you shouldn't be allowed to have them. All gun owners should be sterilised by law and kept in a bullet proof container with other gun nuts for company - oh and plenty of bullets.

That would solve the problem very quickly. Happy days.

I always suspected that the idea of "Usans" killing each other gave great joy to EJ. Now I know it for a fact.

 

[rwguinn]

I always suspected that the idea of "Usans" killing each other gave great joy to EJ. Now I know it for a fact.

That's "Us'uns", you illiterate damyankee!

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I always suspected that the idea of "Usans" killing each other gave great joy to EJ. Now I know it for a fact.

I'm not sure which side he'd support in the ACW though