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[bill smith]

ElMondoHummus ... Don't worry, reading his arguments it's obvious he nows absolutely nothing about firefighting or anything related to fire behavior... as you may guess it doesn't do much for his credibility...

Besides, the second I read:



I knew we were dealing with an arrogant True Believer ^TM and no amounts of facts or reality could or would ever change his tune... so why bother? The last stand of the True Believer ^TM is always "I don't like what they're saying, so they're lying!"...


NYCEMT86 ... Hey, thanks for the link! I have to admit that your Standpipe Operations SOP looks very similar (well other than ours is in french!) to our BGH/Metro SOP (BGH = Batiment a Grande Hauteur french for High Rise, Metro = subway and underground city). I loved the Backdraft comment! If only the job was that easy!

Pat

Check post #40 above. Want to show me a picture of what they are describing ? Wanna bet a grand on it ? lol

 

[triforcharity]

Nothing that disproved anything I said and nothing that increases the 5 bathtubs per minute. What do you think I missed ?

Knock them down, and extinguish them are two different things.

BTW, that would be 10+ bathtubs per minute

 

[ve2vfd]

Bill is someone who thinks they could have easily put put WTC7's fires with some office fire extinguishers.

Darn! THATS what I've been doing wrong all these years!!!!

And there I was using high volume lines like an idiot... man is my face red

Pat

 

[bill smith]

Knock them down, and extinguish them are two different things.

BTW, that would be 10+ bathtubs per minute

To fill an average bathtub takes 60 gallons roughly. So about 5 bathtubs.

Maybe the other guy can tell us what the difference between 'knock down' and 'put out' a fire is ?

 

[DGM]

To fill an average bathtub takes 60 gallons roughly. So about 5 bathtubs.

Maybe the other guy can tell us what the difference between 'knock down' and 'put out' a fire is ?

300+ gal per min. for how long did he specify? Bill, your talking a crap load of water. Try this Bill, fill a 5 gal bucket and spill it in your kitchen. Let us know after how you feel 300+ gal. (every min) would look.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

ElMondoHummus ... Don't worry, reading his arguments it's obvious he nows absolutely nothing about firefighting or anything related to fire behavior... as you may guess it doesn't do much for his credibility...

Oh, I'm not worried at all. I stuck him back on ignore; the only reason I saw anything at all was because Twinstead quoted him (and he didn't do anything wrong in doing that).

Besides, my point is that it's not whether or not he knows about firefighting. I don't know about firefighting myself; my degree is in chemistry and biology, my profession is computing. What matters is what the evidence is, and conspiracy peddlers find it convenient to ignore the evidence to forward their claims. Bill here is a classic example of this sort of behavior.

The extent of the fires is well documented. Note that truthers will not refer to that documentation, since it is anathema to their claims. There is no arguing the visual evidence, and the fire reconstruction is very well done. A truther cannot accept that evidence and remain a truther; hence, their continued and deliberate ignorance of it.

So, don't worry? No problem; I haven't worried about truther arguments since 2006. Everything since then has been nothing more than the repetition of the facts. There is actually nothing to argue here; this whole exercise is nothing more than pointing out what conspiracy peddlers ignore in order to make their arguments. The issues themselves were settled quite some time ago.

Besides, the second I read:



I knew we were dealing with an arrogant True Believer ^TM and no amounts of facts or reality could or would ever change his tune... so why bother? The last stand of the True Believer ^TM is always "I don't like what they're saying, so they're lying!"...

No kidding. That's a statement of faith, not one based in factual evidence. Besides, the physical evidence also establishes what happened, so one does not need to consider the question of whether the firefighters lied about their observations or not. The narrative built from their testimonies is supported by the visual evidence, as well as the investigation afterwards. Trying to say that any of them lied is useless; all one needs to do is compare their statements on what they observed with the fire reconstruction as well as the state of the debris, and one can tell that the collapse was indeed due to the fires fatally affecting an already damaged pair of structures. Whereas comparing truther claims with that same reveals the pure fantasy that goes into conspiracy fantasies.

There is no need to take any of the firefighters' statements on faith. All of the evidence converges on a single narrative, and it has never, ever been the conspiratorial one.

 

[bill smith]

300+ gal per min. for how long did he specify? Bill, your talking a crap load of water. Try this Bill, fill a 5 gal bucket and spill it in your kitchen. Let us know after how you feel 300+ gal. (every min) would look.

It would look like 5 tubs.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Nothing that disproved anything I said and nothing that increases the 5 bathtubs per minute. What do you think I missed ?

To fill an average bathtub takes 60 gallons roughly. So about 5 bathtubs.

Maybe the other guy can tell us what the difference between 'knock down' and 'put out' a fire is ?

Okay, before you continue to spew this ignorance, I highly suggest you pick up this book.

http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?pid=RES9208&cookie_test=1



Knock down is when a fire is under control, but it is not entirely out. Once you have a fire knocked down you begin overhaul/salvage operations, where you would find hidden fires and put out hot spots so they don't reignite.

 

[A W Smith]

Not only does he lie, he doesn't bathe regularly

To fill an average bathtub takes 60 gallons roughly. So about 5 bathtubs.

Maybe the other guy can tell us what the difference between 'knock down' and 'put out' a fire is ?

Why must you lie?
42 gallons is the standard of the industry

http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Bathtub-capacity-1499-.htm

 

[NYCEMT86]

Darn! THATS what I've been doing wrong all these years!!!!

And there I was using high volume lines like an idiot... man is my face red

Pat

Who needs all those hose and pumping capacity when you can use one of these!!!

 

[DGM]

Why must you lie?
42 gallons is the standard of the industry

http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Bathtub-capacity-1499-.htm

From that same link:

Husband helping wife take a milk bath: "You want pasteurized?"
Wife: "No, up to my boobs will be fine".

I couldn't resist.

 

[bill smith]

Oh, I'm not worried at all. I stuck him back on ignore; the only reason I saw anything at all was because Twinstead quoted him (and he didn't do anything wrong in doing that).

Besides, my point is that it's not whether or not he knows about firefighting. I don't know about firefighting myself; my degree is in chemistry and biology, my profession is computing. What matters is what the evidence is, and conspiracy peddlers find it convenient to ignore the evidence to forward their claims. Bill here is a classic example of this sort of behavior.

The extent of the fires is well documented. Note that truthers will not refer to that documentation, since it is anathema to their claims. There is no arguing the visual evidence, and the fire reconstruction is very well done. A truther cannot accept that evidence and remain a truther; hence, their continued and deliberate ignorance of it.

So, don't worry? No problem; I haven't worried about truther arguments since 2006. Everything since then has been nothing more than the repetition of the facts. There is actually nothing to argue here; this whole exercise is nothing more than pointing out what conspiracy peddlers ignore in order to make their arguments. The issues themselves were settled quite some time ago.



No kidding. That's a statement of faith, not one based in factual evidence. Besides, the physical evidence also establishes what happened, so one does not need to consider the question of whether the firefighters lied about their observations or not. The narrative built from their testimonies is supported by the visual evidence, as well as the investigation afterwards. Trying to say that any of them lied is useless; all one needs to do is compare their statements on what they observed with the fire reconstruction as well as the state of the debris, and one can tell that the collapse was indeed due to the fires fatally affecting an already damaged pair of structures. Whereas comparing truther claims with that same reveals the pure fantasy that goes into conspiracy fantasies.

There is no need to take any of the firefighters' statements on faith. All of the evidence converges on a single narrative, and it has never, ever been the conspiratorial one.

In the entire recorded history of the Planet Earth no steel framed hi-rise building has ever collapsed from fire. Then three within a few hours in New York on 9/11. Given that there are extremely well motivated suspicions of controlled demolition in all three cases it's only a matter of time.

 

[NYCEMT86]

In the entire recorded history of the Planet Earth no steel framed hi-rise building has ever collapsed from fire. Then three within a few hours in New York on 9/11. Given that there are extremely well motivated suspicions of controlled demolition in all three cases it's only a matter of time.

Aren't we forgetting one major important detail?

 

[bill smith]

Why must you lie?
42 gallons is the standard of the industry

http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Bathtub-capacity-1499-.htm

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en&q=average+bathtub+60+gallons+full&aq=f&oq=

 

[Thunder]

bill smith
In the entire recorded history of the Planet Earth no steel framed hi-rise building has ever collapsed from fire.




"we don't need facts. we only need doubt"

 

[bill smith]

Aren't we forgetting one major important detail?

You mean the damage to the Twin Towers ? How much real damage can a plane weighing one three-hundreth of one percent the weight of the building do ? Especially when that proportionally tiny weight is spread thinly over a very large area with much of it composed of aluminium some as thin as 1 mm ?

 

[DGM]

It would look like 5 tubs.

So 5 gal. of water per second is not a crap load of water? I'd hate to see what you think is.

 

[NYCEMT86]

You mean the damage to te Twin Towers ? How much real damage can a plane weighing one three-hundreth of one percent the weight of the building do ? Especially when that proportionally tiny weight is spread thinly over a very large area with much of it composed of aluminium some as thin as 1 mm ?

yeah, that's it.....there is NOOO WAY any of this could have happened just because you don't believe it is possible.

Maybe you should read Ryan Macky's paper, then get back to me. Until then, I normally don't ever ignore anyone on this forum, but your ignorance is too much to handle.

 

[bill smith]

yeah, that's it.....there is NOOO WAY any of this could have happened just because you don't believe it is possible.

Maybe you should read Ryan Macky's paper, then get back to me. Until then, I normally don't ever ignore anyone on this forum, but your ignorance is too much to handle.

Well if you can't stand the heat as obviously you can't you may as well put your shields up.

 

[Thunder]

" You mean the damage to the Twin Towers ? How much real damage can a plane weighing one three-hundreth of one percent the weight of the building do ?"

a hell of a lot. to the area impacted?

a hell of a lot. it appears to have sheared the majority of the outer beams on the side of impact. and damaged/destroyed who knows how many interior core beams.