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[NYCEMT86]

Don't you remember that Chief Palmer got to the impact floor #78 in WTC2 ? . Remember when he radiod back, panting from the effort of climbing to the 78th. '' There are only a few isolated pockets of fire '' he said...'' we can knock them down with two lines ''

It sounds like the short lived jet fuel fires had already gone out by the time he got there as you would expect. (Jet fuel burns off very quickly as we all know especially when it has been atomised).

So the question is when he said 'Two Lines ' did he mean just two hoses ?

Because Jet fuel was the only combustible in WTC....

Only if somebody on this forum with firefighting experience went into detail into what exactly "two lines" means based on FDNY high rise operations...


oh that's right...somebody did...wait even better that somebody was me

Part of my paper, figured you guys might like this.


"Chief Palmer reports on the 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones, we've got isolated pockets of fire, we're gonna need at least two hand lines up there"


As most you know that the bulk of the fire was above the 78th floor and I won't get into much detail about that, Rather I am going to get into the stand pipe operations and why only two hand lines would have been needed to knock down the fire the 78th floor.


Most conspiracy theorists think two lines sounds like a small amount and therefore the fire was small right? Well not necessarily, two 2 1/2 inch hoses with 1 1/8th inch smooth bore nozzles can deliver more water at greater pressure than compared to the 1 1/2 inch unlined hoses that would have been stored on site, which anybody in the fire services knows, is usually crap since they don't meet the same requirements as hoses used by the fire department. As basic SOP during a high rise, they would have opened the gravity tanks located above them and turned on the fire pumps (which most likely would have been automatic) in addition to hooking two engines into an exterior outlet to add more pressure in the pipe, 650 psi to be exact. The nozzle pressure would have been reduced to 80-70 psi either by a PRD (Pressure Regulating Device) or at the stand pipe valve. Also the second line would have been hooked up at least two floors below the first line as not to interfere with residual pressure. So what does this all mean? Well if the stand pipe systems were still intact and operational they would have been able to deliver over 338 GPM (Gallons per minute)

GPM = (29.7)(d)^2(NP)

GPM = Gallons Per Minute
29.7 = Constant
d = Diameter in inches
NP = Nozzle Pressure

(29.7)(1.125)^2(80)(Use 81 for Square Root Purposes)
(29.7)(1.265)(9)
(37.5705, Rounded down to 37.57)(9)

GPM = 338


and at a weight of 8.33 pounds per gallon you are talking about over a ton of water with just one line alone. Now if you double that you are looking at over 2.5 tons of water.


Please if you have anything to add or correct go ahead

ETA:

ElMondoHummus you beat me to it!

 

[Thunder]

you really have to be blind to think there were only fires on one floor. or simply playing games.

I suspect the latter.

 

[RedIbis]

How long do you suspect the fire burned in the northeast corner of WTC7 to generate the temperatures that initiated the collapse?

 

[twinstead]

That's what truthers have to do though. They need to minimize everything and change the 'official story' into something it's not to compete with it. So, now the fires weren't that big, or the damage to WTC7 wasn't that bad, The firemen were incompetent or lying, on and on and on it goes.

If they spent half as much time actually doing research instead of this transparent tactic maybe they'd get more respect.

 

[NYCEMT86]

While these may not all be firemen they obviously all attended the 'fully involved' briefings as you can see or obvious reasons. lol

"The building was fully involved in fire." – Photographer Steve Spak

<Snip>

Bolding mine


The only person who says "fully involved" that is not a firefighter is that of Steve Spak, but HOWEVER Steve Spak is a renowned fire photographer, especially with the FDNY. Even before 9/11, he had several decades of experience photographing fires in NYC and he used to be a NYC EMT and dispatcher, working very closely with the FDNY firefighters. His knowledge of fire has been picked up through decades of experience.


It is not uncommon of PAPD officers to know firefighting terminology since they were trained to provide fire safety to the WTC and Port Authority bus terminal.

 

[bill smith]

Because Jet fuel was the only combustible in WTC....

Only if somebody on this forum with firefighting experience went into detail into what exactly "two lines" means based on FDNY high rise operations...


oh that's right...somebody did...wait even better that somebody was me




ETA:

ElMondoHummus you beat me to it!

You wrongly quoted Palmer as saying the following :-

''we've got isolated pockets of fire, we're gonna need at least two hand lines up there ''

But lets stick yo what he really said as in the attached video of the original audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0w1EhJiG0Y Authentic audio

The Truth will set you free...

Readers note....

 

[Furcifer]

I hoped this wasn't already asked, but how many reports of explosions during fires were subsequently traced back to explosives?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

ETA:

ElMondoHummus you beat me to it!

Dude, I got your thread bookmarked, I think it's that important. Especially because foolish people keep bringing up Palmer's quote in order to try and make the fires out to be something other than what they were. It's info like yours that helps show the truthers' argument on that point to be a distortion.

 

[bill smith]

Bolding mine


The only person who says "fully involved" that is not a firefighter is that of Steve Spak, but HOWEVER Steve Spak is a renowned fire photographer, especially with the FDNY. Even before 9/11, he had several decades of experience photographing fires in NYC and he used to be a NYC EMT and dispatcher, working very closely with the FDNY firefighters. His knowledge of fire has been picked up through decades of experience.


It is not uncommon of PAPD officers to know firefighting terminology since they were trained to provide fire safety to the WTC and Port Authority bus terminal.

Let the readers use their own intuition. I think it's pretty clear. (see post #40)

 

[ve2vfd]

NYCEMT86, this might give the folks in the non-FF community a bit of an idea how standpipe operations work:

http://www.fireengineering.com/index/videos.html?bcpid=30311426001&bclid=6505716001&bctid=8590312001

and

http://www.fireengineering.com/inde...0311426001&bclid=6505716001&bctid=13311418001

Our SOP here in Montreal for high rise standpipe operations is either 3in line with smooth bore nozzle, or 3in line into a Y gate valve into 2 1 3/4 lines with convertible nozzles. Each engine and truck has a standpipe/subway kit which consists of a kit bag, 1 3in line and 2 1 3/4 lines. We always bring our own line, never use the buildings...

I agree that "2 lines" if they are 2 1/2 or 3in line can mean LOTS of water. And even if he were talking about 1 3/4in lines, this communication may be taken out of context. "Only 2 lines" is a completely meaningless argument.

Pat

 

[Mr.Herbert]

The Port Authority wanted to demolish the Twin Towers anyway. The EPA had already told them that the buildings had to be upraded and brought into line with EPA regulations by 2007. Otherwise they were required to demolish the buildings. This involved manual dismemberment of the buildings from the top down because any other way would have released masses of asbestos and other contaminents into the air.

So they got a quote- a cool 15 BILLION dollars.

But luckily 9/11 came along and took care of all that. Big relief eh ?

have you been able to find those sources yet, liar?

 

[funk de fino]

How long do you suspect the fire burned in the northeast corner of WTC7 to generate the temperatures that initiated the collapse?

How long would it take you to read the report? Pathetic.

 

[DGM]

Let the readers use their own intuition. I think it's pretty clear. (see post #40)

Bill: The "readers" have already noticed you made two unsubstantiated claims in this thread alone.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Let the readers use their own intuition. I think it's pretty clear. (see post #40)

::Insert multiple laughing dogs::

Its not about your own intuition, it is about facts!

You wrongly quoted Palmer as saying the following :-

''we've got isolated pockets of fire, we're gonna need at least two hand lines up there ''

But lets stick yo what he really said as in the attached video of the original audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0w1EhJiG0Y Authentic audio

The Truth will set you free...

Readers note....

I never misquoted Palmer. I was quoting Battalion Chief 7 when he is relaying information to 7 Alpha and Ladder 15.

Either way, you can't ignore this simple fact: TWO HAND LINES = LOT OF WATER...more water than you would use for two small fires. The 78th floor was the lowest floor of the impact, so the bulk of the fire was still above him.

 

[bill smith]

Because Jet fuel was the only combustible in WTC....

Only if somebody on this forum with firefighting experience went into detail into what exactly "two lines" means based on FDNY high rise operations...


oh that's right...somebody did...wait even better that somebody was me




ETA:

ElMondoHummus you beat me to it!

How could a fire cause what is termed a 'progressive collapse' in WTC7 in which all four widely seperated corners fall at exactly the same time. THis is proven by the fact that the roof stays level all the way down.

(I have to say the answers around here are only working for the choir. Neither me nor I suspect the readers are impressed)

 

[bill smith]

::Insert multiple laughing dogs::

Its not about your own intuition, it is about facts!





I never misquoted Palmer. I was quoting Battalion Chief 7 when he is relaying information to 7 Alpha and Ladder 15.

Either way, you can't ignore this simple fact: TWO HAND LINES = LOT OF WATER...more water than you would use for two small fires. The 78th floor was the lowest floor of the impact, so the bulk of the fire was still above him.

Sigh..the concrete floors between the floors were smashed allowing him a view above. He did not report seeing any more fire than the couple of isolated pockets.

Do you have the audio of the battalion chief ? lol

 

[bill smith]

Bill: The "readers" have already noticed you made two unsubstantiated claims in this thread alone.

You know I like to drop the hammer in my own time DGM

 

[Mr.Herbert]

Do you have the audio of the battalion chief ? lol

You think that's funny? You do know he is dead...right? Start backing up your claims, scum bag.

 

[bill smith]

You think that's funny? You do know he is dead...right? Start backing up your claims, scum bag.

How rude you are. Lucky I am not a stoolie like many others.

 

[ve2vfd]

Sigh..the concrete floors between the floors were smashed allowing him a view above.

And you are so sure of this because you were standing right next to him I guess? Of course, he could see all 40,000 sq feet of the floor where he was AND the floors above clearly thru the partitions, debris and smoke...

*sigh*

Pat