The US won't have troops there any longer than is deemed necessary. It's expensive and miserable for them to be there so don't go thinking that anyone, especially the military, wants to be there indefinitely. My own guess is that they will be replaced by a coalition under UN control in just a few months.
I would believe that if you actually tried to give a balanced history of western/Haiti relations, one that gives both the good and the bad.
But you clearly have no interest in accurate history; your "historical account" is an "America / the west / capitalism is evil and exploitative" caricature, and you rant at those who point out that's not true as "haters" who want Blacks to be slaves again.
What evidence do you have that the escaped prisoners are "partying hard"?
"When the 3,000 inmates of the central prison in Port-au-Prince unexpectedly gained their freedom, courtesy of the earthquake, everybody knew where they would be headed: Cité Soleil, the poorest area of this poorest city, in whose maze of streets they could vanish.
But the fugitives hadn't counted on one thing: the determination of Cité Soleil's people not to let them back."
This is where I got the information about the "partying hard", "looting", and such.
Haiti earthquake: police admit gangs have taken over Port-au-Prince
Haitian authorities conceded they had lost their battle to maintain order in Port-au-Prince after the leaders of the city's crime gangs reclaimed their old turf since being freed when the national prison collapsed last week.
Gangs will be gangs, no matter where they are. If you take something that doesn't belong to you in a disaster situation that is not related to survival needs, aka a flat screen TV aka New Orleans, that is looting, or indulge in a bit of disaster capitalism by selling survival necessities at exorbitant prices, you are a thug, no matter your nationality.
This article's constant referring to "property" as being a bad thing only helps to show ever more clearly that this is politically motivated. I don't know if you see in this tragedy somekind of communist utopia where personal property doesn't exist.
Rebecca Solnit said:
They care less for human life than for property.[...]
his colleagues were so focused on property that they were reckless when it came to human life[...]
Or are you a rescuer? Is the survival of disaster victims more important than the preservation of everyday property relations? [...]
What a bunch of commie crap. This isn't necessarily about private property, but more about social order. Also, if merchants keep getting robed how are a local economies going to get started again? One of the signs of a society getting back on track is when local shops get back in business, and when local folks start spending again.
Rebecca Solnit said:
[...]minor property crimes [...]Or they get gunned down for minor thefts or imagined thefts.
Wow, that’s very low, not the kind of comment you would expect from an objective and rational journalist. Oh wait, she’s not.
Nobody is saying that at all, it’s all in her paranoid mind. Human beings, whatever their race is, will resort to selfishness, crime and lawlessness whenever society breaks appart. Not all of them, but a suffisiant amount of people will cause trouble, and disrupt the reconstruction. I don’t know in what kind of a world this author or Jihad Jane think they are living in, but it’s completely unrealistic to expect humans to just behave under chaotic circumstances. Human beings are human beings, they can be both ugly and good. Of course alot of altruism is taking place there, everyday, mostly even, and alot of solidarity and good will, but we also must not ignore the bad stuff as well, and that’s one of the reasons the US soldiers are there, just so that the little bad stuff doesn’t hinder the good.
Rebecca Solnit said:
Right now, the point is that people in Haiti need food, and for all the publicity, the international delivery system has, so far, been a visible dud. Under such circumstances, breaking into a U.N. food warehouse -- food assumedly meant for the poor of Haiti in a catastrophic moment -- might not be “violence,” or “looting,” or “law-breaking.” It might be logic. It might be the most effective way of meeting a desperate need.
No, it’s not. The “everyone for himself” strategy makes it even harder to give aid. When there is a stampede going on there are less chance that everyone gets their fair share of the aid, it makes the distribution unequal, because “everyone for himself” allows the stronger to win, and usually that’s the one whose more violent (the one with the knives), while the weak get nothing.
Is that what you want, Jihad? Is that what you mean when you say looting is not such a bad thing?
Jihad Jane said:
BTW, what's so terrible about people looting when they have no food or water?
Alot of looters gang up, they get together to get power. They don’t loot for themselves, they keep what they stole in order to acquire wealth, because water and food, become currency in a lawless world after a catastrophe. And they will use intimidation and violence to secure their loot and impose their law.
And that’s not just an Haïtian thing, it’s a human thing. Humans will always resort to this when there is chaos, that’s why you need the law and police to prevent it.
Is that what you want?
And about your link on Cité du soleil, apparently, the gangs have returned since that article:
I prefer professionals in the police and army to take care of those criminals, not the poor people. The police and military have the training and the guns, while the population doesn’t. It seems that you on the other hand are perfectly willing to let the poor and exhausted villagers take the law upon themselves and fight them off with the little resources and energy they have left. To me, that’s a blatantly inhumane thing to ask of them. I want the population to worry about their survival, not fight off crime and aggressors at the same time. Let the army do it.
Personally, I prefer that people whose next meal does NOT come from local resources, and who are not dependent on (what's left of) the local economy to handle security, medical, and aid distribution.
They are less likely to be influenced by personal motives.
By all means, go to that web site to see the parallel universe some people inhabit. Some, er, "interesting" articles from that web site:
"Avatar: An Extension of White Supremacy" (Nobody except for them noticed)
"Cancer: the Deadly Legacy of the Invasion of Iraq" (another idiotic conspiracy theory)
"Global Economic Collapse in Two Years" (Hooray! Everybody will be poor and suffering but at least the evil capitalists won't be making money!)
"A List of 220 gendered words in our language" (awful words that magically make us all women-haters, including "history", "fast", "shame", and the very existence of those two disgusting terms, "man" and "woman".)
"Murdering mother earth, one atom at a time" (that would take a while, then, considering the earth has about 10^50 atoms in it)
Personally I think the only question should be, what is the best way to get the most help to the most people. The US is the closest, best equipped country to get the job done.
Help end the suffering and sort the political BS out later.
This article's constant referring to "property" as being a bad thing only helps to show ever more clearly that this is politically motivated. I don't know if you see in this tragedy somekind of communist utopia where personal property doesn't exist.
Property is bad only when SOMEBODY ELSE owns it. I doubt "JihadJane", or the authors of that ridiculous website, would feel as caring and socialistic and equality-boosting if somebody broke into their home and took their stuff.
What a bunch of commie crap. This isn't necessarily about private property, but more about social order. Also, if merchants keep getting robed how are a local economies going to get started again?
Oh, don't worry. The evil, disgusting, capitalistic imperialist Americans will send aid. And if they don't, who cares? JihadJane & co. care far more about blaming the USA than about the fate of the people of Haiti. The moment the USA is out of Haiti, and thus is not blamable anymore, that's the end of their caring.
Minor thefts? Looting at gun point and with machetes are minor thefts?
Only when people of the designated victims groups(TM) do it. Besides, the guys they rob have property, which means they are part of the evil capitalistic system, so they deserve to be robbed. Crime is just a matter of social justice and economic redistribution of the evil unfair system, after all.
Wow, that’s very low, not the kind of comment you would expect from an objective and rational journalist. Oh wait, she’s not.
Actually, JihadJane & co. seem to believe Haitians in disaster are cattle or animals: they don't need that disgusting thing called property, just like cattle. They just need to be cared for with food and water, just like animals.
In fact they don't even need that. All they need is to be left alone, to be free to live in harmony with nature, complete with the 50% or so (at least) death rate among the young, old, and weak wild animals experience.
But at least they won't be ruined by capitalistic greed.
Nobody is saying that at all, it’s all in her paranoid mind. Human beings, whatever their race is, will resort to selfishness, crime and lawlessness whenever society breaks appart. Not all of them, but a suffisiant amount of people will cause trouble, and disrupt the reconstruction.
There you go again, posting facts. Stop it! The revolution will never advance this way!
No, it’s not. The “everyone for himself” strategy makes it even harder to give aid. When there is a stampede going on there are less chance that everyone gets their fair share of the aid, it makes the distribution unequal, because “everyone for himself” allows the stronger to win, and usually that’s the one whose more violent (the one with the knives), while the weak get nothing.
But, again, you're assuming facts not in evidence. JihadJane doesn't care if the weakest of the Haitians get trampled or robbed or stabbed or starved to death. All she cares about it to blame the USA for something.
"Haiti's capital is filled not with looters but scavengers, an important distinction. Talk to those scouring the ruins for something to salvage and they almost always turn out to be the owners."
Just thought I'd pop in and see if the evil Americans have taken over Haiti yet and forced the remaining population to work for free in a Walmart sweat shop making discount tube socks.
Anybody know what's going on with the distribution of aid (medicine, food, etc.) from the airport? U.S. military is handling the airport operations, but who is responsible for what gets out to the streets -- Haiti's gov't? U.N.?
Anybody know what's going on with the distribution of aid (medicine, food, etc.) from the airport? U.S. military is handling the airport operations, but who is responsible for what gets out to the streets -- Haiti's gov't? U.N.?
"For Maxi and countless others here in Haiti’s pulverized capital, new rules of hunger etiquette are emerging. Stealing food, it is widely known, might get you killed. Children are most likely to return with something to eat, but no matter what is found, or how hungry the forager, everything must be shared."
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