8 out of 8 at Citgo station

[Childlike Empress]

We are coming now to the CITGO witnesses themselves. Tell us how they fit, apathoid.

 

[DGM]

If you want to discuss them, start a new thread. First read Caustic Logic's article i've posted earlier. Where he tries to come up with 17 - not hundreds - SoC witnesses. Don't miss the comments.

No need, I'm done with them. I don't need to ignore evidence to find the truth.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I espesially like this part from Morin:


He couldn't see this if he was where CIT claims.

He could, because he reports the plane much slower than the data shows it.

 

[DGM]

He could, because he reports the plane much slower than the data shows it.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here's another CIT presentation, "Over the Navy Annex". It is 24 minutes long and most of it is a recorded conversation between Terry Morin and Craig Ranke. A very interesting conversation. It starts with Morin explaining how he was told not to talk to people because of "the conspiracy theories":

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

 

[apathoid]

He could, because he reports the plane much slower than the data shows it.

Evidence?

 

[The Big Dog]

It speaks for itself, apathoid. Some people may have even continued watching one witness after the other lining up and describing the plane approaching over the navy annex and flying between the citgo station and arlington cemetary. It is between 16:00 and 51:00 in the "NSA" presentation. Every rational person understands what they see there. It is not debatable. Obfuscation doesn't work. The evidence is there. Hence my question in #139 that you haven't answered.

Gee, CE, have you seen the raw tapes that the CIT Mutts had promised to release, because no one else has.

Anyway, thank you for the following:

"describing the plane approaching over the navy annex and flying between the citgo station and arlington cemetary."

and this:

"They have seen him turn away from the street and explaining how the plane flew over his garages and the right wing was over where [Paik] he is standing."

Now, perhaps you can do what the incompetent frauds at PFFT and CIT can't do: give us the calculations for that flight path, you know bank angle, G force, etc. Don't worry for the time being about the descent and fantasy pull up and over.

Say, did you ever explain why you think that CIT's right hand man Cap'n Bobby is a snake oil salesman?

 

[The Big Dog]

He could, because he reports the plane much slower than the data shows it.

Facepalm.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Evidence?

Beat you to it. #205

 

[DGM]

It starts with Morin explaining how he was told not to talk to people because of "the conspiracy theories":

Yeah there's no problem with being taken out of context by the CT's.

 

[triforcharity]

He could, because he reports the plane much slower than the data shows it.

Can you judge correct air speed with a puckered rear?? I most likely couldn't. Most couldn't.

 

[twinstead]

Now, perhaps you can do what the incompetent frauds at PFFT and CIT can't do: give us the calculations for that flight path, you know bank angle, G force, etc. Don't worry for the time being about the descent and fantasy pull up and over.

This is a deal breaker, CE, and you know it.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

People who follow the discussion have seen Paik's testimony. I pointed to the relevant minute in #165. They have seen him turn away from the street and explaining how the plane flew over his garages and the right wing was over where he is standing.

They understand that this completely contradicts the "real/official" flightpath.

That's nice CE. How do you reconcile this element of the testimony, in which all "NOC" witness and the remaining 100+ witnesses place the planes final destination inside the pentagon?

Please don't leave me hanging for a year or more like a certain red bird has already done.


Don't tell me you plan to ignore this element to testimony from witnesses you believe are credible in discussing this "contradictory" flight path.

 

[BCR]

Oh by the way, Paik never points over 'his garages'. CE really does need to watch that video again.

 

[mudlark]

correction

eight out of...

http://www.webcitation.org/5kWmEVFru

Long story short, CIT thinks that all those 100's of South Side Witnesses, the debris, the DNA, the various flight path data, the damage pattern, the CIT's own witnesses testimony that the god damn plane hit the freaking Pentagon, etc, were planted in a huge disinfo operation anyway.

Thanks CE! You make it insanely easy to debunk those ****ing morons!

The last time I was here not ONE SOC witness was presented.

I don´t know how the link given is meant to contradict the testimony
of the NOC witnesses.
First, there are no witnesses within that vicinity who counter their claims as to which path the plane followed between the Navy Annex and the Pentagon.
Second, the vast majority of ´testimony´ linked to are mainly unconfirmed media reports. Some of which, when looked at in more detail, actually coincide and reinforce the NOC witness testimony.
Some are taken completely out of context.
Some are media embellishments and not direct quotes.
MANY had no view at all or weren´t even within a 2 mile radius.
Some are totally anonymous initialled accounts.
Some are disinfo.

More importantly, NONE are SOC witnesses.

Mind explaining how these statements contribute either way to defining the final seconds of the plane´s appearance in this particular Arlington basin of land?

Ralph Banton

"It sounded like it was jetting instead of slowing down."

That´s it..

Richard Benedetto

¨ The plane went down and for a split second it was out of my line of vision because there was a bridge there and a hill. ... I DID´NT ACTUALLY SEE THE IMPACT... ¨

Nuff said..

Lisa Burgess

in the Pentagon courtyard

"I heard two loud booms - one large, one small."

No view. HEARD the explosion.

Dennis Clem

Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency

"There was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon."

That´s it. His only description. No mention of any ´impact´ or of its path.

Scott P. Cook

"We didn’t know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, OR WHERE IT HAD HIT.¨

His testimony contradicts what exactly?

Steve DeChiaro

"But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing."

This guy is meant to contradict NOC too? seems more like an incredulous account of a plane actually striking the building.

Kim Dent

looking out of the window of an office in the Navy Annex

"We saw the shadow of a plane. We heard the engine. We all said, 'That plane is flying kind of close.' "

Saw ´the shadow of a plane´..

Michael DiPaula

"It sounded like a missile," DiPaula recalls. "There were three loud thump, thump, thumps. You could hear the metal cracking and crinkling, and the explosion."

DiPaula was INSIDE a trailer and HEARD the explosion. In another media report
he is described as witnessing the plane approach. This is a lie.

Mike Dobbs

¨I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running."

and

¨... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."

Bob Dubill

“This plane was going to slam into the Pentagon. I steeled myself for the explosion.”

That is all he says. No description. He did not witness any ´impact´
according to this testimony.

Steve Eiden

¨he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit.¨

This is a reporter´s account telling us that Steve Eiden did not see any ´impact´.

Bruce Elliott Colonel

"It was banking and garnering speed. I FELT it was headed for the Pentagon."

Fred Gaskins

"(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target,"

Not an impact witness.

Mike Gerson

¨I didn't see the actual impact¨

Afework Hagos

¨ I know this plane is going to crash.¨

Cheryl Hammond

"We saw the big American Airlines plane and started running."

Eugenio Hernandez

¨"I was in my Jeep Cherokee, driving on Route 395 toward DC and listening to NPR. I saw the plane coming down."

Joe Hurst

Oval Room restaurant at Lafayette Square

"I saw it go overhead, the plane."

Will Jarvis

“There was just nothing left. It was incinerated. We couldn’t see a tail or a wing or anything,” he says. “Just a big black hole in the building with smoke pouring out of it.”

Another ´witness´ after the fact who described anything but a planecrash.

Aydan Kizildrgli

The reporter claims that he saw the plane ´strike´ the building.
His position is unconfirmed.

"There was a big boom," he said. "Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled ‘Did you see that?' Nobody could believe it."

Unconfirmed report on the morning of 9/11 in USAToday.
Describes a ´big boom´. That´s it.

Mary Lyman

¨Then the plane disappeared, smoke started coming up, and traffic came to a complete stop," Lyman said.¨

Munsey Christopher

¨it appeared to hit the side of the Pentagon.¨

O'Keefe John

"There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black thick smoke...¨

Linda Plaisted

in office at home in Arlington less than one mile from the Pentagon

Interviewed a year later (2002)

¨I started to run toward my front door but the plane was going so fast at this point that it only took 4 or 5 seconds before I heard a tremendously loud crash¨

Linda Plaisted lives BEHIND the Navy Annex.
She HEARD and felt an explosion. That´s it.

Lon Rains

¨ In fractions of a second I heard the impact and an explosion. The next thing I saw was the fireball. I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane¨

This guy had no idea what had happened. He didn´t even see the plane and thought it was a ´missile´.

Alfred S. Regnery
right wing publishing mogul Alfred Regnery from Regnery publishers

¨As I watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete barriers I knew it was about to crash.¨

Could not and admitted that he did not see ´impact´.

Joseph Royster
´driving´

"I was on the street driving, and then the plane went over the top of my car, just over the treetops ... It was a big aircraft just on its course."

Vague media one-liner.
He doesn´t state where he was. Just that he was ´driving´.
He makes no description whatsoever of what the plane actually did after it flew over the ´treetops´ apart from the ambiguous line ´a big aircraft just on its course´??
Just who or what is this alleged witness meant to contradict?
Did NOT witness ´impact´.


James Ryan

¨Interviewer: And you saw it hit the Pentagon?
No, at that point it went down because I was approaching a hill. And at that point it went straight down over the hill¨

Non ´impact´ witness. Admitted.

Don Scott

¨I looked back and saw flames shooting up and smoke starting to climb into the sky."

Smiley, Elizabeth

"I saw the plane not more than 200 feet over my head," Smiley said.

That´s it.

Dewey Snavely
Quaker Lane in Arlington

¨Then we heard an explosion and the truck rocked back and forth."

HEARD explosion.

Kate Snow
CNN congressional correspondent

"I did see, myself a plane, about half hour ago, circling over the Capitol, now whether that may have been..."

End of.

Anybody counting the witnesses who contradict NOC?

John Thurman
Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff

´inside the Pentagon´

"To me the explosion happened in two portions. It didn't sound like much. There was a large whoosh and then a kind of a karumph sound."

He was INSIDE the Pentagon. NOT an ´impact´ witness.

Thomas J. Trapasso
1km behind Navy Annex

"It disappeared over the trees, and I heard a boom. I knew something awful had happened--that an airplane had crashed somewhere in Washington, D.C."

That´s it. He saw the plane.

Ian Wyatt

"It was going so fast and it was so low."

This contradicts NOC witnesses? No.

Madelyn Zakhem
on a bench outside the VDOT Smart Traffic Center

"It was huge! It was silver. It was low -- unbelievable! I could see the cockpit. I fell to the ground.... I was crying and scared."

Edit: Spelling

 

[mudlark]

Witnesses (including NOC witnesses) who describe a ´right bank´ on this list

William Middleton Snr and Sean Boger who are on this list describe
a right-bank.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/StaffordBankToTheRight.jpg



http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/dariusangling.jpg

Boger:

¨As he was coming towards me it just seemed like he was tilting the aircraft to his right...almost like an angle¨

Donald Carter:

¨coasted over the Navy Annex into a bank before gunning its engines..¨

William Middleton CMH interview 2001:

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/middletoncmh-1.jpg

George Aman

http://www.thepentacon.com/neit419

¨When I seen he was kind of turning and gliding when he came across here, across the parking lot..¨

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/AMANWINDS-1.jpg

Who else describes this bank on this list?

Gary Bauer

¨And it VEERED TO THE RIGHT into the Pentagon.¨

Mike Walter

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/walter-NoC.gif

Robert A. Leonard

"The aircraft, so close to the ground, was banked skillfully to the right..¨

James Ryan

http://www.america.gov/st/pubs-english/2005/June/20050628163417atlahtnevel0.1261103.html#ixzz0ZFlG7ia9

¨At that point he tilted his wings, this way [right wing down] and then this way. [left wing down] .... and then straightened out suddenly..¨

Bruce Elliott Colonel

"It was banking and garnering speed. I FELT it was headed for the Pentagon."

Don Scott

driving eastward past the Pentagon on his way to Walter Reed Army Medical Center; just passed the Pentagon and was near the Macy's store in Crystal City

"I noticed a plane making a sharp turn from north of the Pentagon. I had to look back at the road and then back to the plane as it sort of leveled off.¨

Sepulveda Noel

¨HE BELIEVES THAT IF THE AIRLINER HAD NOT HIT THE LIGHT POLES, IT WOULD HAVE SLAMMED INTO THE PENTAGON'S 9TH AND 10TH CORRIDOR A-RING, and the loss of life would have been greater.¨

Here we see exactly which area of the Pentagon he believes the plane was en route for until it hit ´lightpoles´. But when we see this route, the plane is nowhere near the abovementioned poles.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/pentagon_navy_commandrings.jpg

He is describing a right hand banking manouevre until the plane was ´diverted´ by what he believed to have been an object on the motorway.
He is also describing this manouevre as being at a much higher altitude than the streetlights if he believed that the plane was going to crash into the Centre court of the building.

There can be no other translation of this statement.

The warning I posted in the "Flight 77 flight path" thread (found here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5312646&postcount=548) applies forum wide.

Continual posting the same thing (text, pictures, etc.) over, and over, and over again is spamming. DO NOT CONTINUE TO DO SO.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[The Big Dog]

The last time I was here not ONE SOC witness was presented.

Hi! Thanks for cutting and pasting from banned members posts elsewhere on the internet. Please don't do that again!

Anyway, so if you have South Path witness who is not an impact witness, you throw them RIGHT THE **** OUT, huh?

Wow, that is amazing.

Richard Benedetto

Quote:
¨ The plane went down and for a split second it was out of my line of vision because there was a bridge there and a hill. ... I DID´NT ACTUALLY SEE THE IMPACT...
¨
Nuff said..

Wow! He did not see the impact, so he is worthless? Are you kidding, why don't you apply that same standard to the mutts' North of Citgo witnesses? CIT lies and claims that none of them saw the impact either. Nuff Said, huh CIT fan?

Nuff said, indeed! That is the problem when you rely on poorly educated agenda driven morons to come up with a theory. They cheery pick the hell out of everything, and sucker in the weak minded patsies to repeat their lies.

I mean, the right bank you mention: only complete incompetents like Fat Aldo and his Reggae Drummer fraud friend would deceive you like that. To even have the chance of flying the most conservative path NOC path, the airliner would have to be banked almost on its side.

ON ITS SIDE. CITiots are flat freaking lying to you. Don't be a sucker.

 

[mudlark]

Hi! Thanks for cutting and pasting from banned members posts elsewhere on the internet. Please don't do that again!

Anyway, so if you have South Path witness who is not an impact witness, you throw them RIGHT THE **** OUT, huh?

Wow, that is amazing.

Richard Benedetto

Quote:
¨ The plane went down and for a split second it was out of my line of vision because there was a bridge there and a hill. ... I DID´NT ACTUALLY SEE THE IMPACT...
¨
Nuff said..

Wow! He did not see the impact, so he is worthless? Are you kidding, why don't you apply that same standard to the mutts' North of Citgo witnesses? CIT lies and claims that none of them saw the impact either. Nuff Said, huh CIT fan?

Nuff said, indeed! That is the problem when you rely on poorly educated agenda driven morons to come up with a theory. They cheery pick the hell out of everything, and sucker in the weak minded patsies to repeat their lies.

I mean, the right bank you mention: only complete incompetents like Fat Aldo and his Reggae Drummer fraud friend would deceive you like that. To even have the chance of flying the most conservative path NOC path, the airliner would have to be banked almost on its side.

ON ITS SIDE. CITiots are flat freaking lying to you. Don't be a sucker.

YOU are applying these standards.
Saw NOC? Misremembered.
Right bank? Wrong.

Why so much difficulty in naming SOC witnesses?

Richard Benedetto is an SOC witness?

Richard Benedetto, a USA TODAY reporter, was on his way to work, driving on the Highway parrallel to the Pentagon : "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.(...) I didn't see the impact. (...) The sound itself sounded more like a thud rather than a bomb (...) rather than a loud bomb explosion it sounded muffled, heavy, very deep. I didn't see any flaps, it looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight.

Where in this media quotation does he confirm SOC? He doesn´t.
He concentrates more on the sound of the explosion than actually witnessing anything.

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Pentagon_witnesses#_note-35

"Then the plane flew right over my head. I said to myself, boy, that plane is going awfully fast," Benedetto said. "That plane is going to crash."

Exactly where on Route 27 along the official path was this guy that the plane went ´over his head´ and had to deduce an ´impact´??

Witness testimony must be confirmed. This is one example that needs to be explained directly to have any validity.

Edit: typo

 

[DGM]

Witness testimony must be confirmed. This is one example that needs to be explained directly to have any validity.

How many of these people (SOC) have CIT talk to?

 

[jhunter1163]

Mudlark, how many of CIT's own witnesses say that the plane hit the Pentagon? Out of 13, was it:

A) 0
B) 2
C) 6
D) 11