Hardfire: Szamboti / Chandler / Mackey

[BigAl]

Just out of curiosity, how long do you calculate it would take, say, 200 people to collect ten thousand fire extinguishers? Don't forget the time to organize and brief them.

Right. Smash down 10 doors without permission for every extingusiher found then send firemen into a building that is about to collapse. Leave the offices unlocked for looters.

 

[Edx]

And seriously, a few commercial fire extinguishers competing with a professional fire hose with gallons of water? What the hell planet are these people on?

 

[nicepants]

There is no evidence of a dynamic load. You need velocity loss to show there was one and there is no velocity loss observed, the upper block of WTC 1 continuously accelerates.

Why do you think you need to show velocity loss?

Because that indicates kinetic energy was transferred

I know this was discussed pages ago but I think it bears bringing up again. I would love to see Tony's response to this:

The problem I have with your statements above is that you seem to think that a moving body cannot transfer kinetic energy to another body without a decrease in velocity. This is true if the body is moving at a constant velocity but not necessarily true if the moving body is accelerating.

My roommate hit a cone on a the road once. He hit it as he was accelerating. He definitely transferred kinetic energy to the cone, but the car's velocity did not decrease as a result.

 

[WildCat]

And seriously, a few commercial fire extinguishers competing with a professional fire hose with gallons of water? What the hell planet are these people on?

It is astonishing, isn't it?

 

[WildCat]

I know this was discussed pages ago but I think it bears bringing up again. I would love to see Tony's response to this:

The problem I have with your statements above is that you seem to think that a moving body cannot transfer kinetic energy to another body without a decrease in velocity. This is true if the body is moving at a constant velocity but not necessarily true if the moving body is accelerating.

My roommate hit a cone on a the road once. He hit it as he was accelerating. He definitely transferred kinetic energy to the cone, but the car's velocity did not decrease as a result.

Maybe Tony can measure the jolt in this video:

 

[bill smith]

Just out of curiosity, how long do you calculate it would take, say, 200 people to collect ten thousand fire extinguishers? Don't forget the time to organize and brief them.

Well you would call ahead all the managers of the skyscrapers around and have them assemble all or most of their fire extingishers at the front entrance where they would be picked up by truck. Extinguishing could begin almost immediately with more extinguishers coming in all the time. No problemo. Zero problemo in fact. That's what they could and should have done while they were hooking up to pump water truck-to-truck the few hundred feet from the river to WTC7.

It is perfectly obvious that either or both of these solutions would have easily dealt with the fires in WTC7. Especially with the tiny initial fires that we have video of. There is no reason to believe that the initial fires on the South Side were any larger than the ones elsewhere in WTC7 and they would have been extinguished just as quickly and easily..

 

[NutCracker]

I know this was discussed pages ago but I think it bears bringing up again. I would love to see Tony's response to this:

The problem I have with your statements above is that you seem to think that a moving body cannot transfer kinetic energy to another body without a decrease in velocity. This is true if the body is moving at a constant velocity but not necessarily true if the moving body is accelerating.

My roommate hit a cone on a the road once. He hit it as he was accelerating. He definitely transferred kinetic energy to the cone, but the car's velocity did not decrease as a result.

Huh? Am I understanding Mr. Szamboti right? Is he claiming that dv / dt needs to be < 0 ??? But..but..but.. there is velocity loss. Heck the hole bloody lot is in a 1g gravity field. The bloody lot is offset by g*t. Even Chandler (?) concedes the top block accelerates at 0.64 (?) g's. dv / dt + g = 0.64 g. Ergo dv / dt = - 0.36 g's. <----- Here is Szamboti's velocity loss. So here we have the absent, cough, cough, dynamic load.

Tell me I misunderstand him in some way, because the consequence of me understanding him correctly is that when I drop a lead ball in a bowl of butter the ball does not exert a force on the butter.

 

[R.Mackey]

Nope, you understand perfectly.

 

[NutCracker]

Nope, you understand perfectly.

That's.. that's.. high-school physics! Holy cow!

Banging my head against my desk and laptop.

Oh, and a force is definitely being exerted on them.

 

[bill smith]

And seriously, a few commercial fire extinguishers competing with a professional fire hose with gallons of water? What the hell planet are these people on?

I hope you readers are reading the exchange about how the fires in WTC7 could have been put out. You should pay attention to the extreme weakness of the answers most of the debunkers are putting up and use that to inform your judgement about whether 9/11 was an inside job and whether these debunkers know that. And why they would pretend otherwise.

 

[A W Smith]

BS just jerking off again.

I hope you readers are reading the exchange about how the fires in WTC7 could have been put out. You should pay attention to the extreme weakness of the answers most of the debunkers are putting up and use that to inform your judgement about whether 9/11 was an inside job and whether these debunkers know that. And why they would pretend otherwise.

I will give you this opportunity to confirm you are a complete jackass. Explain how hand held fire extinguishers can put out a fully involved 47 story office building fire when you cannot even get close enough? Any attempt to get within rage will cause you to be incinerated yourself.

 

[bill smith]

I will give you this opportunity to confirm you are a complete jackass. Explain how hand held fire extinguishers can put out a fully involved 47 story office building fire when you cannot even get close enough? Any attempt to get within rage will cause you to be incinerated yourself.

Readers please refer to the section in the attached hyperlink where I said that debunkers might try to describe fires other han the ones I mentioned. Please note that AW Smith (no relation ) is the one who has started this particular ball rolling. It can surely be a factor to consider in judging him.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5393344&postcount=1622 hyperlink

 

[dafydd]

I hope you readers are reading the exchange about how the fires in WTC7 could have been put out. You should pay attention to the extreme weakness of the answers most of the debunkers are putting up and use that to inform your judgement about whether 9/11 was an inside job and whether these debunkers know that. And why they would pretend otherwise.

That's a laugh,a truther talking about weak answers!

 

[bill smith]

That's a laugh,a truther talking about weak answers!

Don't be so timid daffyd. Be stronger.

PS. I ought to be more careful how I spell your name. Otherwise people might begin to think of a certain cartoon character with black feathers, a yellow beak and a speech impediment when they see your posts. Best to mention no names.

So dafydd, I hope that my prior misspelling of your name does not have the unfortunate side effect I anticipate. Sorry about that.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

That's a laugh,a truther talking about weak answers!

Too bad Bill doesn't talk about weak evidence or lack of it.

 

[rwguinn]

Huh? Am I understanding Mr. Szamboti right? Is he claiming that dv / dt needs to be < 0 ??? But..but..but.. there is velocity loss. Heck the hole bloody lot is in a 1g gravity field. The bloody lot is offset by g*t. Even Chandler (?) concedes the top block accelerates at 0.64 (?) g's. dv / dt + g = 0.64 g. Ergo dv / dt = - 0.36 g's. <----- Here is Szamboti's velocity loss. So here we have the absent, cough, cough, dynamic load.

Tell me I misunderstand him in some way, because the consequence of me understanding him correctly is that when I drop a lead ball in a bowl of butter the ball does not exert a force on the butter.

Nope, you understand perfectly.

That's.. that's.. high-school physics! Holy cow!

Banging my head against my desk and laptop.

Oh, and a force is definitely being exerted on them.

Yup. Even my son, who is graduating in Management, understands this better than the "engineer for troof"

 

[BigAl]

Well you would call ahead all the managers of the skyscrapers around and have them assemble all or most of their fire extingishers at the front entrance where they would be picked up by truck.

Lower Manhattan buildings were evacuated. There was nobody to call. There was nobody to unlock doors.

 

[Edx]

I hope you readers are reading the exchange about how the fires in WTC7 could have been put out. You should pay attention to the extreme weakness of the answers most of the debunkers are putting up and use that to inform your judgement about whether 9/11 was an inside job and whether these debunkers know that. And why they would pretend otherwise.

yes I hope so too.

Assuming its rational to think the firefighters had time to run around and commandeer commercial fire extinguishers from offices, you actually think they could use them to put out massive fires.

Get this through your head Bill, commercial fire extinguishers are meant for small fires they arent meant for anything larger. The amount of water that comes out of a professional fire hose is gallons and gallons more than the small amount they put in your average office extinguisher. The amount of effort it would take to find the amount of extinguishers necessary would have taken them many weeks.

 

[bill smith]

yes I hope so too.

Assuming its rational to think the firefighters had time to run around and commandeer commercial fire extinguishers from offices, you actually think they could use them to put out massive fires.

Get this through your head Bill, commercial fire extinguishers are meant for small fires they arent meant for anything larger. The amount of water that comes out of a professional fire hose is gallons and gallons more than the small amount they put in your average office extinguisher. The amount of effort it would take to find the amount of extinguishers necessary would have taken them many weeks.

They were designed to extinguish office fires. And what did NIST call the fires in WTC7 ? 'Office Fires ' if you remember. And when they were tiny like in the videos as I mentioned they could easily have been put out using a virtually unlimited number of extinguishers and tons of manpower.

Between pumping water truck-to-truck or using pumps from the river and the fire extinguishers you guys may consider yourselves officially busted

 

[Edx]

They eere designed to extinguish office fires. And what did NIST call the fires in WTC7 ? 'Office Fires ' if you remember. And when they were tiny like in the videos as I mentioned they could easily have been put out using a virtually unlimited number of extinguishers and tons of manpower.

Between pumping water truck-to-truck or using pumps from the river and the fire extinguishers you guys may consider yourselves officially busted

No they arent designed to extinguish large office fires, they are designed to extinguish small office fires just after they get started.

By the time they got together enough fire extinguishers to put out Building 7's initial fires they would have now have massive fires that the extinguishers would not have been able to deal with.