The VFF Test is On!

The point of having a protocol is that there should be no "behind the scenes methods". No one was trying to cause VFF to fail by trickery or doing anything other than what was agreed on in the protocol.

Every protocol will have some things that the claimant won't necessarily know about. I haven't read the Connie Sonne protocol that she signed. Did it include the brand of playing cards or the brand of envelopes they would be in? Did it include who would shuffle them backstage and who would hold the envelopes as the cards were being placed in them? There's only so much detail that can be put in these things.



So it does matter. It would change the probability calculation.

Yes, if someone slipped in who was unknowingly missing a kidney it would change the probablility calculation. I'm no statistician. Anyone care to figure out what the odds are that such a person would be in the subject pool? And then the odds that they would have been chosen?


But it was still a poor protocol, and I'm pretty sure the only reason they kept it under wraps was to avoid the criticism.

So you would have been fine with every test subject coming here and reading the entire protocol? I don't think I would. Talk about making it easy for a cold reader.

No it wasn't. The protocol did not call for them to wear identical shirts and identical head coverings and to be seated identically such that they could rest against the padded chair backs. Yes, I'm glad that's how they did it, but that wasn't part of the protocol.

Well, if you want to be techincal, the t-shirts were only similar. I doubt they all had the same number of molecules in them. That way, they aren't identical and it matches exactly what it says in the protocol. They all had different numbered labels on them, so they weren't identical. The subjects all decided to wear the hats. The protocol said they "may" do it, and they did. These are nonsense criticisms. They are within the parameters set up and agreed to by both VfF and IIG. I really don't see your point here.

Ward
 
And I thought VFF/Anita was reasonably honest and genuine. I’ve always been a sucker for blonds . . . Guess I need more therapy.

The fabric could be t-shirt material and it only needs to be large enough to “see” kidneys through. “Seeing” a kidney is “seeing” a person. I can’t see any valid reason for her to object to this test other than she doesn’t want to be conclusively proven wrong.

ETA - Just remembered Anita saying somewhere that seeing the whole person with a hat on was confusing and that she would prefer (and only needed) to see the area of the kidneys. Seems she wants what she doesn't want (blonds!).

Don't think this is her words I remembered but it's from her last post - "I will try to arrange for more testing, but the format will be a little bit simpler to set up, however with a stricter test protocol that allows for even less visibility of the subjects" (bolding mine)
 
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Yes, if someone slipped in who was unknowingly missing a kidney it would change the probablility calculation. I'm no statistician. Anyone care to figure out what the odds are that such a person would be in the subject pool? And then the odds that they would have been chosen?

We went over this a few months ago. Estimates are that 1 in 500 to 1,000 people are born missing one kidney. This can be seen in routine ultrasounds during pregnancy. Other people find out about it either because they have related problems or get treated for other problems and the doc happens to notice it. Still others learn about this from psychics who detect its absence via Vibrational InformationTM.

Basically, I don't think there's any way to *know* how many people do not know they are short a kidney. Obviously it's much less than 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000. Let's pretend half the people don't know. That means 1 in 1,500 are walking around blissfully unaware of being short a kidney.

We had 15 people in the test who thought they had both kidneys. That means there was a 0.008 (0.8%) chance that *one* of them was missing a kidney and didn't know it.

Anita picked two people in the first trial as missing a kidney, and neither believed it to be the case. We confirmed one of them but not the other since it wasn't an official guess. When I run this through my special Windows Calculator with the Vibrational AlgebraTM plug-in, all I get for an answer is green.

Basically, we don't know if anyone in the group was missing a kidney without knowing it. All we know is that it is highly unlikely. I trust the stat experts to have my back here, but the way I see it you look at it as that unofficial guess person as having a 1 in 1,500 chance of missing a kidney. The chances of Anita detecting that one person actually being shy a kidney is 0.0006 or 0.06% (a 1 in 1,500 guess with 1 trial and 1 success).

Of course, several of them could have been lying and had actually been missing a kidney. We'll never know, will we?
 
Of course, several of them could have been lying and had actually been missing a kidney. We'll never know, will we?

Well, we know already. Since Anita can always really truely, really, really select a missing kidney, then it is obvious that all of the other testees must have had two kidneys, since Anita by her own admission is never ever really and truly never ever ever ever wrong. We know this because she says so.

QED

Norm
 
Hello.

We are still collating all of the various information, but since the audience guessing is getting discussed so much I wanted to let you know that two members of the audience who participated in guessing for all three rounds did as well as Anita.

Two people were correct for Round 1.
No people were correct for Round 2.
One person was correct for Round 3.

One of the people from Round 1 did not make a choice for Round 3.

I also wanted to let you know that it looks like it will be a few weeks for everything to be posted, but we will try to post material as it is ready. Everything will be posted on the IIG website at www.iigwest.org.

Thanks.

-Derek

This is great news, Derek.
Thanks again to the IIG for all the work on this public demonstration of AI's claim.
 
No. I just did a precise calculation of Anita in the test getting at least two people right and at least one location right purely by chance. It works out to be 49/864, which equals 5.67%. The odds of getting 7 hits in 10 coin tosses is much greater -- 17.19%.

For the sake of argument, I'll play along with your scenario. Let's focus on this "purely by chance" phrase you're so fond of. In each of the three trials one of three mechanisms was at work.

1) Pure chance. This is the equivalent of rolling a die once to select a person and flipping a coin a second time to select a side. While I disagree with your number, it's close enough to my calculations to be acceptable. Did you see her flip a coin or roll a die? I didn't, so this didn't happen.

2) Anita, through a method unknown to science, was able to "sense" the presence of each and every kidney present. Just like with the lady administering the sonogram, this should have resulted in three complete successes. This did not happen.

3) Using skills of observation Anita was able to tilt the odds favor to land somewhere between 1 and 2. This is what happened.

First off, the older you are, the more likely you are to have donated a kidney. For example, in California in 2006 living donors in the age groups 18-34, 35-49, and 50-64 were about even at 1,800 in each group (the below 18 group was nominal). That means that every year about 130 *more* people at any given age will have donated a kidney.

In other words at the end of 2006, the 18 year olds will have about 130 donors. The 19 year olds will have the 130 donors from last year and 130 from the current year. The 20 year olds will have 260 from prior years plus another 130. You see how this works?

Then you have the issue of people needing nephrectomies. Cancer is one major cause. Obviously, the older you are, the more likely are you to get cancer lose a kidney. Likewise, some nephrectomies are due to injury. Again, the longer you've been on the planet, the more chances you have had of sustaining an injury requiring the removal of a kidney.

On top of that 60% of living donors are male. Furthermore, kidney cancer occurs in men at twice the rate it does in women. I don't know the nephrectomy rates, but I would be surprised if it was significantly different. Men play contact sports and engage in dangerous activities like riding motorcycles (on and off-road) far more than women do. They get shot more often. They make up the bulk of war casualties.

I could go on, but the point has been made.

On top of that she was able to observe people for nearly 30 minutes. She was moving around behind so that each person was the "focus" of her attention. She could see them react and hear/see them breathe/swallow as a nervous reaction.

We set out to see if there was anything at all to her claim, which was scenario #2. There wasn't. We also know #1 was simply not possible with all of the data available to her. What happened, #3, is exactly what I expected to happen.

In other words, there's nothing to see here. Sorry. It's sorta like the deal Dr. Ertel and the kid drawing balls from the bag "purely by chance" as seen here. I mean, no way did he peek in the bag, right?

f118f622762a3f75380bdd2f8ce3ad4d.gif
 
And I thought VFF/Anita was reasonably honest and genuine. I’ve always been a sucker for blonds . . . Guess I need more therapy.

Hey, I have an idea! Why don't you go together? She could use both the therapy and a friend... ;)
 
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Something I mentioned at the time, which hasn't been discussed: that cell phone call should have ended the second trial right then and there.

And, gee, look: that's the only trial she got a hit during...
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Something I mentioned at the time, which hasn't been discussed: that cell phone call should have ended the second trial right then and there.

And, gee, look: that's the only trial she got a hit during...
.

Why?

Am I missing out on the joke or did that errant ring tone **** the test?
 
Hello.

We are still collating all of the various information, but since the audience guessing is getting discussed so much I wanted to let you know that two members of the audience who participated in guessing for all three rounds did as well as Anita.

Two people were correct for Round 1.
No people were correct for Round 2.
One person was correct for Round 3.

One of the people from Round 1 did not make a choice for Round 3.

I also wanted to let you know that it looks like it will be a few weeks for everything to be posted, but we will try to post material as it is ready. Everything will be posted on the IIG website at www.iigwest.org.

Thanks.

-Derek
Thanks, but what we need to know is: (a) How many people from the audience guessed in each of the three rounds? and (b) What were the specific guesses? -- e.g., in Round 1, how many selected Subject 1, right side; how many selected Subject 1, left side; how many selected Subject 2, right side; etc.

I also observe that, if there were non-paranormal clues discernable, it's odd that no member of the audience was correct in Round 2, which Anita was.
 
Talking with Ghosts
She has had multiple conversations with ghosts including Ben Franklin, George Washington, Alexander Hamiltom, Adams (she didn't say which one) and Abraham Lincoln. She shared the lengthy conversation with Hamilton and concluded by telling me, "However, at least I'm *as good* as the other psychic mediums out there who attempt to talk to spirits. Combining that with skepticism, maybe I can debunk this whole thing."

You forgot to mention that her descriptions of said ghosts were factually inaccurate, clearly being based on popular misconceptions rather than any actual meeting.

3) Using skills of observation Anita was able to tilt the odds favor to land somewhere between 1 and 2. This is what happened.

I disagree with this part. I don't see anything that suggests Anita has any observation skills at all, let alone particularly good ones. In this test, the chance of getting her result was about 1/5. About 1/5 people in the audience (of those we have a record of their attempts) got the same result. There's no suggestion of any cold reading or anything being used there. It's certainly possible that it was used, but there's no evidence to support that.

If you look back at all her other tests, things are even worse. As far as I'm aware, she has failed every single test she has ever taken, including those where she competed, and lost, against untrained volunteers. If she were actually using cold reading or other observations, she should certainly have done better than that. Instead, the only successes appear to be cases where either we have nothing more than Anita's word on what happened, or where clear misses are simply claimed to be hits.

Anita does not appear to be the kind of person who unknowingly uses mundane observation skills to fool themselves into thinking they have magic powers. I could sympathise with that. But that could only happen if she actually observed things occasionally. Instead, she is someone who simply invents hits out of thin air (to put it politely). She's not getting things right and incorrectly attributing that to magic powers. She's getting things wrong and just pretending that she was right and therefore has magic powers.
 
Thanks, but what we need to know is: (a) How many people from the audience guessed in each of the three rounds? and (b) What were the specific guesses? -- e.g., in Round 1, how many selected Subject 1, right side; how many selected Subject 1, left side; how many selected Subject 2, right side; etc.

I also observe that, if there were non-paranormal clues discernable, it's odd that no member of the audience was correct in Round 2, which Anita was.


No we don't need to know that at all. This is a thread for discussing Vision from Feeling's test, not the Vision from Feeling's Audience test which you seem to be relentlessly pursuing.

In any case, Derek has already pointed out that those results will be available at IIG in due course, for those who wish to pursue them.
 
You are talking about your imaginary results, whereas in your original post it appeared to be her real results.
There's nothing imaginary about my calculation, which I'm confident is accurate for determining the probability of Anita getting the result that she did purely by chance. Here is how I did it:

I calculated the probabilities for all of the results that would be inferior to Anita's result, which was getting two persons correct and one location correct, and then subtracted the sum of those probabilities from 1. So, I calculated the probabilities of (a) getting none of the persons correct; (b) getting only one person correct, with the location either incorrect or correct; or (c) getting two persons correct, but with both locations incorrect.

For (a), it's a simple matter of multiplying 5/6 * 5/6 * 5/6, which equals 125/216. The reason for this is that the probability of getting each person incorrect in each of the three trials is 5 out of 6. If that occurs, no calculation is necessary for location.

For (b), it's a little trickier because the correct person could be chosen in any of the three rounds, but we still don't need to do a separate calculation for location because, whether the location is correct or incorrect, the result (one person correct, but with the incorrect location or one person and one location correct) would be inferior to Anita's result. Thus, the overall probability of getting one person correct is 3 * 1/6 * 5/6 * 5/6, which equals 75/216.

For (c), it's trickier still because now the probability of getting both locations incorrect after getting two of the three persons correct must be accounted for. However, that's simply a matter of factoring in the 1 in 4 probability of that happening. Again, there are three ways of getting two persons correct (correct in Rounds 1 and 2, correct in Rounds 1 and 3, or correct in Rounds 2 and 3). Thus, the probability getting two persons correct, but both locations incorrect, is 3 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 5/6 * 1/4, which equals 15/864.

Summing 125/216 + 75/216 + 15/864 = 815/864. Subtracting that sum from 1 = 49/864, or 5.67%.
 
So, the most logical conclusion seems to be that Anita can detect a person who knows they had a kidney removed at a rate greater than chance, but cannot determine which kidney was removed at a rate greater than chance.
This would be inconsistent with the ability to see inside a person, and consistent with the ability to read people.
 
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There's nothing imaginary about my calculation, which I'm confident is accurate for determining the probability of Anita getting the result that she did purely by chance. Here is how I did it:

I calculated the probabilities for all of the results that would be inferior to Anita's result, which was getting two persons correct and one location correct, and then subtracted the sum of those probabilities from 1. So, I calculated the probabilities of (a) getting none of the persons correct; (b) getting only one person correct, with the location either incorrect or correct; or (c) getting two persons correct, but with both locations incorrect.


You still seem to be missing a very important point. For some reason you seem to want to give some weight to completely wrong guesses. Guessing a person missing a kidney, but guessing the wrong side for the missing kidney, is not a partially correct answer. It's two wrong answers.
 

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