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9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

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Since when do you have to write a book on GPR in order to use GPR?

You don't, but you need to at least show that you are trained to operate the machine and interpret its readings.

You mean, like the Bentham one? Amazing, wasn't it! Can you believe that, people preparing a building in order for it to blow up so you can start a war against the enemies of Israel in the world's gas station and create a police state at home?
http://liamscheff.wordpress.com/files/2009/11/collapse-or-explosion-a-photo-essay-by-liam-scheff.pdf

Nice derail.

I saw this forum post yesterday as well. But wait a minute, what is this guy Conyers doing? Is he discussing this non-existing report? He must be clear-voyant then, able to discuss reports yet to be written. Amazing! He seems to be albe to draw a lot of conclusions from a single picture. Maybe this picture was a sample picture from some promotional material that had nothing to do with Treblinka at all.

Nice derail. It's highly unlikely that the photo is not from those readings.

TSR wants to pretend that discussing Krege's work by a professional is really a neutral exercise. That it is doesn't really matter whether you aprove or disaprove the results. And that in a world where you have to go to yail if you send a book about the holocaust to the mayor of your local town.

No, you don't. Yes, it is really a neutral exercise. No, Krege is not a professional - at least, you have shown no evidence that he is.
 
I think our troubles are over. Scientific proof that Treblinka was indeed a death camp seems to exist. Your sceptic hero Michael Shermer seems to possess this kind of forensic evidence.

Somewhere on Nafcash I see: <snip>

Not a reliable source.

What physical evidence? If Shermer, who insists that he must see compelling evidence before he believes anything, has proven the holocaust via the scientific method, then he must have located / proven the existence of tons of bone fragments and millions of teeth that proves the alleged Treblinka holocaust, right?

Dude, there is plenty of evidence out there about the mass graves. You ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

But why then can’t the jews, who are so incredulous that rational people reject their asinine magically disappearing jew “theory,”

What "magically-disappearing Jew theory"?

locate / prove the existence of so much as one single bone fragment or tooth at Treblinka?

They have. The graves were discovered when the camps were liberated.

And why do you think the jews have declared a literal MODERN INQUISITION to silence skeptics of the official holocaust story and punish those who wish to investigate and expose this historical fraud?[/I]"

They haven't.

Can you point to the evidence that Shermer has provided? Thanks in advance!

9/11-investigator, you are aware that the only evidence against Shermer is that provided at nafcash? Which lists no sources and no evidence? The only scan on the site is from... guess what? The KREGE REPORT.
Nice try.
 
Wait, so in your mind, the furnaces that still stand don't count as physical evidence? Nor do the ledgers that recorded statistics on what was happening? And photographs from the period are what? First person testimony?
 
That's bull... Germar Rudolf and Steven Jones got fired for their publications.
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No, Germar got fired for unauthorized use of his employer's name to publish his crap, implying that it had their approval.



IOW, he lied.



Just like you just did.
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Since when do you have to write a book on GPR in order to use GPR?
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You don't.

You *do* need training and expertise to interpret the results.

And, since Conyers *has* written such a book, and is a recognized expert in the field, wouldn't you say his interpretation rather makes mince meat of Krege's, with no credentials, training or experience at all?

<attempt at derail snipped>
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I saw this forum post yesterday as well. But wait a minute, what is this guy Conyers doing? Is he discussing this non-existing report?
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No, he very obviously was discussing the picture hosted here which you would know if you had bothered to folow the link.
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He must be clear-voyant then, able to discuss reports yet to be written. Amazing! He seems to be albe to draw a lot of conclusions from a single picture. Maybe this picture was a sample picture from some promotional material that had nothing to do with Treblinka at all.
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LOL -- the picture was published by your hero, Irving, in an article entitled "Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves"

Can both feet fit in there at the same time?
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TSR wants to pretend that discussing Krege's work by a professional is really a neutral exercise. That it is doesn't really matter whether you aprove or disaprove the results. And that in a world where you have to go to yail if you send a book about the holocaust to the mayor of your local town.
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No, TSR quite clearly points out that Krege is an incompetent fool, by someone with the credentials, training and experience to be able to authoritatively make the determination.
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I don't know, why not? Seems to fit in a suitcase:
http://www.vho.org/VffG/2000/1/Image25.jpg

Nothing like making up your own facts.

What little has been released indicates Krege rented the equipment, or rather Jurgen Graf did.

Jürgen Graf wrote:
Since the two-week rental of the radar equipment was beyond Krege’s means, I sent out a letter requesting donations from my sponsors and friends, and succeeded in raising the necessary amount.
 
No, TSR quite clearly points out that Krege is an incompetent fool, by someone with the credentials, training and experience to be able to authoritatively make the determination.

No he is not. The idea alone is priceless. Even if criticism is possible, and Krege himself said as much that more research is necessary, the idea is born and the experiment can be carried out at any time in the future. In Holland thousands year old Germanic settlements are found on a monthly basis. Technology is advanced enough to establish whether the allegations are founded in reality or not. Not by listening to liewitnesses but by forensic research.
 
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My dear fellow, as was to be expected you completely missed the point. Krege was not looking for:

- skull and bones, let alone ash or other human remains
- golden teeth
- the fur coat of mrs. Cohen
- railway time tables listing the next train to the USSR
- written proof that uncle Adolf had commanded the Final Solution (the holywood variety of it)

He was looking for the simplest experiment possible: was the soil yes/no disturbed at the location where the alleged mass graves were situated.

The soil was already disturbed in November 1947 when the evidence of mass burial was confirmed. Krege didn't even find this. Therefore his experiment was a complete failure "on procedures". Can you show me his grid of the areas he covered.....Oh that's right....he didn't lay down a grid that he can show anyone. Funny about that.


Before I will take you serious in the future I want to know the following:

- type of operating system of your computer
- pixel resolution of your monitor
- software key that proves that you are working with legal software
- height of the chair your are sitting while typing your opinions

In absence of this data I unfortunately have to consider your contributions as non-scientific and can't take you seriously any longer.

I am not submitting a scientific report to you am I? If I was I would also need to include citations, an abstract, the university to which I submitted my paper and the peer review it has withstood. That's how I did things at Anthropological Prehistory at Sydney university for digs.
 
No he is not.
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All evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, eh?

You yourself have agreed that the camp existed. This fact alone would disturb the soil. Krege supposedly found no distrubance at all.

How do you explain this?
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The idea alone is priceless. Even if criticism is possible, and Krege himself said as much that more research is necessary, the idea is born and the experiment can be carried out at any time in the future. In Holland thousands year old Germanic settlements are found on a monthly basis. Technology is advanced enough to establish whether the allogations are founded in reality or not. Not by listening to liewitnesses but by forensic research.
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When are you actually going to get around to *citing* this research? So far, all we have is a "liewitness" by the name of Krege, and no forensics at all to support his lies.

In fact, the forensics which have been produced in support of his lie, has been shown to do no such thing by a recognized expert in the field.

Care to explain why you find Krege's lack of forensic evidence to be compelling?
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locate / prove the existence of so much
as one single bone fragment or tooth at Treblinka?

We have. Polish judge Lukaszkiewicz's evidence is clear. They blew up holes and found bits of bodies. Why are none of the holocaust deniers arguing appealing against his "real evidence"? Well for a start they haven't read it. What specific problems do you find in Justice Lukaszkiewicz's evidence?
 
Enough of your opinions, back to reality. Here a fresh article about general Jaruzelski. I hate communism but I always had some sympathy for the general in that he prevented an invasion by the Soviets in Poland in 1980. Look at what he recently had to say about post-war Polish demographics to a Russian interviewer:

http://polskaweb.eu/polens-mysterio...n-nach-dem-zweiten-weltkrieg-65373111118.html

http://de.altermedia.info/general/b...ach-dem-zweiten-weltkrieg-03-11-09_37014.html

(both in German)

Warschau - Es scheint nur noch eine Frage der Zeit und Millionen Geschichtsbücher in allen Ländern über die Ereignisse um den zweiten Weltkrieg könnten auf dem Müll landen, denn schon ist bekannt dass in vielen Bereichen Historiker geschwindelt, oder aus Propagandazwecken mit falschen Angaben gefüttert worden waren. Manipuliert wurde offenbar vor allen Dingen bei Opferzahlen und der ethnischen Herkunft von Tätern und Opfern.

You will remember that Poland was center stage for the topic we are discussing here in this thread.

Eine derartige, unzweifelhaft spektakuläre, Aussage machte ausgerechnet vor wenigen Tagen der ehemalige polnische Staatspräsident Wojciech Jaruzelski in einem ausführlichen Interview mit der Moskauer Tageszeitung "Iswestija".

"Es fehlt mir bis heute das Verständnis wie in meinem Land nach dem Ende des Krieges 24 Millionen Polen gezählt wurden und schon bei der nächsten Volkszählung im Jahre 1970 waren es plötzlich 14 Millionen Polen mehr. Dann endete, wie vom Blitz getroffen, die Bevölkerungsexplosion und pendelte sich beim Stande von 38 Millionen auf eine Einwohnerzahl ein, die noch heute unverändert gilt. Offenbar war es ein starkes Aphrodisiakum was zur Geburt von x- Millionen neuer Polen führte, denn in den Lebensmittelgeschäften gab es nur Essig und Millionen starben ja auch nach dem Kriege" - gab der ehemalige polnische Präsident gegenüber den hiermit überraschten Journalisten der Tageszeitung "Iswestija" zu


So much for die idea that numbers of victims can simply be extracted from say Jewish periodicals, an exercise people like Parky67 are addicted to.

Laut dem Ex- Präsidenten, der in Polen trotz seiner Kriegsrechtgeschichte, überwiegend als honoriger Mann gilt, waren im Jahre 1946 nur noch 24- von einst 37 Millionen Polen der späten 30er Jahre vorhanden. Demzufolge fehlten 13 Millonen Polen, wovon nach polnischen Angaben 5,9 Millionen im Kriege ums Leben gekommen sein sollen, hierunter knapp 2.9 Mio. Juden, das Schicksal der restlichen 7 Millionen Polen gilt noch heute als ungeklärt.

Hopla, 7 million people unaccounted for. Probably gassed by the Nazi's as well. We all know how they are.

Kontrovers erscheint dagegen ein normales polnisches Telefonbuch, wo man auf jeder beliebigen Seite noch dutzende, wenn auch polonisierte jüdische- und deutsche Nachnamen findet, obwohl diese Minderheiten im Lande offiziell nur noch aus Bruchteilen bestehen sollen.

Translation: gassed Jews who in reality turned out to be Jews in Polish disguise.

This story can be explained by assuming that far less people perished than generally was assumed; that the post war figures were propagandistically tainted and that later figures more accurately reflected reality.

Very interesting. Jaruzelsky sliding into revisionist thinking.
 
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No he is not. The idea alone is priceless. Even if criticism is possible, and Krege himself said as much that more research is necessary, the idea is born and the experiment can be carried out at any time in the future. In Holland thousands year old Germanic settlements are found on a monthly basis. Technology is advanced enough to establish whether the allogations are founded in reality or not. Not by listening to liewitnesses but by forensic research.

Stop posting useless links, please. YouTube, the IHR, whatever that guy's name was... none of them are legitimate sources to use for research.
In any case, other people being able to repeat the experiment does not in any way validate this experiment, and you insinuating that it is so is ludicrous.
 
Enough of your opinions, back to reality.
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What opinions are those?

The reality is your icon Krege has been shown to be an incompetent fool.

If you are so convinced that this "investigation" supports your denial, why aren't you lobbying Krege to release the raw data?

That way, *real* experts can school both you and him.
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Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying that people have been digging there as early as 1947? Link?
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Mattangno, in "Treblinka Extermination Camp or Transit Camp," , kindly translates from the Polish, starting on page 84:

"Protocol of the tasks performed on the grounds of the death camp Treblinka, which forms the object of the judicial examination.
From November 9 to 13, 1945, the examining magistrate of Siedlce, Z. Łukaszkiewicz, together with the State Attorney for the District Court of Siedlce, J. Maciejewski, performed the following tasks on the camp grounds:
November 9, 1945
Excavations were begun on the grounds using the services of 20 workers who had been mustered by the village administration for carrying out roadwork. The excavations began at the location described by the witness Rajzman on November 6, where the so-called ‘camp hospital’ had stood and where, according to the witness, a mass grave is supposed to exist.
Since a bomb crater 4 to 5-meter deep is present at the said location – two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater – the digging was begun in this crater. In the course of this work numerous Polish, as well as Russian, German, Austrian, and Czech coins as well as broken pieces of various kinds of containers were discovered. At the end of the work, at approximately 3 pm, at a depth of 6 meters, we encountered a layer which had not been reached previously. There were no human remains found.
November 10, 1945
The work was continued, with 36 workers assigned who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone. It consists partly of all sorts of kitchen utensils and different kinds of household objects; there are also pieces of clothing. At a depth of 7 meters, we reached the floor of the pit – a layer of yellow sand which is not mixed with gravel. By means of expansion of the excavation we succeeded in determining the shape of the pit. It has sloping walls, and the bottom measures about 1.5 meters [sic!]. The pit was presumably excavated with an excavator. During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, further a badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew, as well as several more coins: Polish, German, Russian, Belgian, and even American. After we had made certain that this pit, filled with broken pieces of the containers mentioned, ran in a north-south direction on the grounds of the camp area – 2 meters more [in a northerly direction] had been excavated – the workers started work at this location.
November 11, 1945
A series of test excavations were performed at the place where the [gas] chambers had to have been located, in order to find their foundation walls if possible. Pits 10 - 15 meters in length and 1.5 meters deep were dug. Undisturbed layers of earth were uncovered by this.
The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.
November 13, 1945
With the assistance of 30 workers employed for roadwork, the opening of a pit was begun – a site where refuse was deposited in the northeastern section of the camp. In this location, as the workers from the nearby hamlets explained, a very large number of documents were found up till now. Work was begun at this location where the people [of that area] had dug a three-meter-deep pit in a search for gold. During the course of the digging, broken pieces of all sorts of kitchen containers as well as a large number of rags were continually found. Aside from the coins discovered so far, Greek, Slovakian, and French ones were found, as well as documents in Hebrew and Polish and remnants of a Soviet passport. At a depth of 5 meters the work was stopped due to the steadily worsening weather conditions.
The Examining Judge The State Attorney
Lukaszkiewicz Maciejewski
Decision:
The Examining Judge of Siedlce, on November 13, 1945, rules in consideration of the fact that with great probability no mass graves are any longer to be found on the grounds of the former camp today, as is to be concluded from the witness testimonies examined so far and from the results of the works carried out at the site, and in consideration of the oncoming autumn, the present rainfall and the necessity of a rapid conclusion of the judicial preliminary investigations, in view of all these facts to stop the work on the territory of the former death camp Treblinka.
The Examining Judge
Lukaszkiewicz."
On December 29, 1945, after the conclusion of his preliminary investigations, Lukaszkiewicz issued a protocol with 14 paragraphs, which – as already mentioned – was presented by the Soviets at the Nuremberg Trial as Document USSR-344. In the third paragraph, which bears the title "Current condition of the camp terrain", it says the following:209
"With the assistance of an expert land surveyor and witnesses, I made an exact inspection of the terrain. According to the measurements, the area of the camp is approximately 13.45 hectares and had the shape of an irregular quadrilateral. No remnants of facilities of the former death camp exist any longer. The only things that remain of the structures are: a ditch with remains of burned wooden poles protruding up, which lead into the cellar, wall bricks from the foundations of the camp’s domestic economics building and the site of the well. Here and there one finds traces of the burned-out wooden poles of the fence and remains of barbed wire. There are also some sections of paved walks that remain. Nonetheless, there are still other traces that hint at the existence and functions of the camp. In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay. In the southwestern direction, a portion of the camp terrain is covered by aluminum – enamel – glass and porcelain dishes – kitchen utensils – hand luggage – rucksacks – pieces of clothing, etc. There are innumerable holes and craters on the property."
Lukaszkiewicz summarized the investigations carried out a month earlier at that location as follows:210
"During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned, all the more so since the camp was liquidated early and the murderers had much time. The ground of the camp was ploughed and sown. Ukrainians were settled there, who fled before the arrival of the Red Army (witnesses Kucharek and Lopuszyński)."
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Really, you should educate yourself on the history you are so desperate to deny. Even your own sources show you to be woefully ignorant, lying, or (most likely) both.


You do *do* see what this does to Krege's "no disturbance" claims, don't you? How do you suyppose his GPR missed a 5 metre deep crater?
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My dear fellow, as was to be expected you completely missed the point. Krege was not looking for:

- skull and bones, let alone ash or other human remains
- golden teeth
- the fur coat of mrs. Cohen
- railway time tables listing the next train to the USSR
- written proof that uncle Adolf had commanded the Final Solution (the holywood variety of it)


You are a very strange person. The conclusions of the Krege report conclude.....

"Ergebnis

GEFUNDEN:

Der Boden besteht zum größten Teil aus unberührter Erde, Sand und Steinen. Die Bäume sind älter als 50 Jahre.

NICHT GEFUNDEN:

Massengräber, Einzelgräber, Knochenreste, Menschenasche, Holzasche, Bodenunebenheiten, Bauelemente oder Baumüll, Baumüberreste oder Baumstümpfe, Höhlen oder Hohlräume, Goldzähne.


Which means in English means "Conclusions.... NOT FOUND: Skeletal remains, human ashes, wood ashes, ground disturbance, components or building dust, tree stumps from firewood, grave holes, gold teeth.

Are you saying Krege was not looking for the things he made a specific conclusion about? Have you actually read the Krege Report? It's obvious you haven't.
 
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