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Why do (some) astrologers ask for the exact time of birth?

Astro Teacher said:
That's easy, it comes from expertise, knowledge and experience. When I am working, I am working.
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Well yes, that's a given. Sorry, I am trying to make myself clear.

When you are working, that is using the tools of astrology to give information to someone, how do you differentiate between information that you get from astrology and information that you receive from your own perception of the person.

I only need the general layman's terms. i.e. My tools can tell me a specific time in which a specific event might occur. I would have no way of knowing this if it weren't for astrology.
 
JREFers, and threads like this, are the best. I have read all the way through and somuch admire the way the de-bunking questions and arguments are put forward.
 
Astro Teacher said:
Science does this all the time. Never touched a black hole, have they? But, they know it to exist. Never seen a magnetic ray, yes, but it is known to exist.

Apparent contradictions appear in nature, all around you, how can you not see this, not know this?
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The difference is, nobody is saying "There are black holes out there, I just know it, but there's no way you can actually measure anything about them," which is what you appear to be saying about astrology. If it affects us, its effect can be measured.

Dave
 
Hi. I was just passing by these interesting threads and stopped to ask if anyone else was struck by the curious irony of Astro Teacher dismissing what appears to be almost all current astrologers for not being true astrologers, but simultaneously adopting everyone in history who ever invented or discovered anything as a true astrologer.

I particularly enjoyed the bit about doctors (presumably not true astrologers) not washing their hands because the astrologers hadn't explained germ theory to them yet.

These threads are internet magic. I'd like to thank all concerned.
 
Pure_Argent said:
Scary? No. Nonsensical and unfounded? Yes.
Astro Teacher, you can make these claims all you want, but until you actually give some evidence for them, no one is going to believe you in the slightest. Making unfounded claims to support unfounded claims doesn't help you.



Again, you must offer EVIDENCE.



You astrologers must not be very good at medicine, then.



The problem, Astro Teacher, is that the reading either doesn't support your claims or tries to support it with unsupported claims of its own. Bare assertion plus bare assertion is still bare assertion.



No. Being a skeptic for skepticism's sake is a way to make sure that you don't go around believing in nonsense and making a fool of yourself.



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And again, this does not answer the question.
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Some things are too good to ignore.
 
Astro Teacher, in the slew of posts it will be easy to miss the two times I've asked this before, but I was quite amazed to learn that serious astrology can predict not only the time, but also the manner of death...

Chapter 5.1 - Concerning Birth Time Rectification & Verification


Death is quite a taboo subject in Astrology and many astrologers will glaze over it or sugar coat the fact that each Nativity shows not only the time of death but also the method. Analyzing death significations is quite important, even if it is for self study.
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http://www.antiquus-astrology.com/Chap5.html

This is really world-shaking information for me. I've been following your call to learn more about serious astrology and this has to be the single biggest thing to blow me down. Astrology can tell me when and how I will die. Wow. My nativity shows it and foo foo astrologers won't touch it.

1) Have you discerned from your nativity when and how you will die?

2) Could I consult your professional services as a master astrologer to find out when and how I will die?

This has to be about the most important question in my life that I could think of and I'm truly shocked to learn that the science of astrology can tell me this.
 
Astro Teacher said:
Mainly I spend time on Torsion Field Physics of planetary bodies and electromagnetic vibrations from the Sun and the planets.
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Astro Teacher, I apologize that I forgot to address this from your previous post in which you went into specifics about your subjects of study. Regarding Torsion Field Physics, I followed your call to investigate the information available myself and found the following...

Torsion field, also called axion field, spin field, spinor field, and microlepton field is a pseudoscientific concept loosely based on Einstein-Cartan theory and some unorthodox solutions of Maxwell's equations. The torsion field concept was conceived in the Soviet Union by a group of physicists in the 1980s. The group, led by Anatoly Akimov and Gennady Shipov, began the research as the state-sponsored Center for Nontraditional Technologies, but was disbanded in 1991 when their research was exposed as a fraud and an embezzlement of State funding, only to emerge again as a private enterprise; The International Institute for Theoretical and Applied Physics and later as a private company called UVITOR. Anatoly Akimov photographed torsion fields using a special device and his results were published in May 1996 issue of the Russian magazine Chudesa i prikliuchenia.
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Torsion Field

Torsion Field Research

Maxwell's Equations

Also, you said...


Astro Teacher said:
The Sun, Moon, and planets and stars do not require your "belief" for them to operate in our world, which they do electromagnetically. Distance is not an issue for those who know something about this, it is all in angles, movement, and the strengths and weaknesses in magnetic resonance.
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And...

Astro Teacher said:
All of space, and every inch of our planet is filled with magnetic lines of influence and strength. Distance is not a factor in astrological forecasting - mathematics is, and by angles of force, we make our forecasts.
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I am confused by this because...

Fem = k * (q1 * q2) / r2

Where Fem is the electromagnetic force, k is a constant called the Electromagnetic Force Constant, q1 and q2 are the electric charges of the two objects involved and r is the distance between the two objects.

On the matter of field electron microscopy...

Field emission microscopy (FEM) is an analytical technique used in materials science to investigate molecular surface structures and their electronic properties. Invented by Erwin Wilhelm Müller in 1936, the FEM was one of the first surface analysis instruments that approached near-atomic resolution.

Microscopy techniques are used to produce real space magnified images of a surface showing what it looks like. In general microscopy information concerns surface crystallography (i.e. how the atoms are arranged at the surface, surface morphology (i.e. the shape and size of topographic features making the surface), and surface composition (the elements and compounds the surface is composed of).

Field emission microscopy (FEM) was invented by Erwin Müller in 1936. In FEM, the phenomenon of field electron emission was used to obtain an image on the detector on the basis of the difference in work function of the various crystallographic planes on the surface.
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There surely can't be a lack of examples of already-dead, non-famous people from all over the world whose time and place of birth and time of death are recorded. If true astrology can predict the moment of death from the place and moment of birth, then that would provide an easy test for the million dollar challenge:

  • A selection of dead people's histories is presented to one true astrologer who uses their astrological skills to reject any whose information appears to have been wrongly recorded.
  • A list of times and places of birth thus verified is drawn up.
  • The list is presented to a different true astrologer, who calculates each person's time of death.

Match the dates for an easy peasy $1,000,000 win. Right?
 
Pure_Argent said:
Careful. That's how I got put on Ignore.
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Yes, I saw that and also that Astro Teacher's response garned him a civility breach edit. It is a very important question, as that basic physics equation is in opposition to Astro Teacher's claims about the irrelevance of distance. Hopefully, Astro teacher will deem my posing of the problem to be worthy of a more comprehensive address.
 
kitakaze said:
Yes, I saw that and also that Astro Teacher's response garned him a civility breach edit. It is a very important question, as that basic physics equation is in opposition to Astro Teacher's claims about the irrelevance of distance. Hopefully, Astro teacher will deem my posing of the problem to be worthy of a more comprehensive address.
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Hopefully, but not likely. Either he/she will ignore the fact that you mentioned it entirely, or you'll end up in the Ignore Box with me, six7s and Gord for being "emotionally immature".
 
Jack by the hedge said:
There surely can't be a lack of examples of already-dead, non-famous people from all over the world whose time and place of birth and time of death are recorded. If true astrology can predict the moment of death from the place and moment of birth, then that would provide an easy test for the million dollar challenge:

  • A selection of dead people's histories is presented to one true astrologer who uses their astrological skills to reject any whose information appears to have been wrongly recorded.
  • A list of times and places of birth thus verified is drawn up.
  • The list is presented to a different true astrologer, who calculates each person's time of death.
Match the dates for an easy peasy $1,000,000 win. Right?
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I've quoted this post in the test thread as I thought it was a good idea that would be relatively easy to test.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5271338#post5271338
 
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