Why do (some) astrologers ask for the exact time of birth?

[Astro Teacher]

You are suggesting that the best way for you to help me understand your jargon is to... erm... suggest that I familiarise myself with your jargon...

FAIL

Please note: by dodging simple requests, you are NOT increasing your already meagre credibility

I seek no credibility. That is a skeptic's ruse that I never fall for. If you want to debate this subject of astrology, then at least understand astrological terms enough to be able to debate cogently. What is so difficult about that? Even a child can learn some of the basic terms.

 

[Nonpareil]

I seek no credibility. That is a skeptic's tactic that I never fall for. If you want to debate this subject of astrology, then at least understand astrological terms enough to be able to debate cogently. What is so difficult about that? Even a child can learn some of the basic terms.

Could you give us the definitions that you use? You see, many of us are wary of using our own definitions during debate; we've recently finished an argument with another user named Rramjet whose primary tactic was to change the definition of "UFO" mid-debate. We'd like to know how YOU define YOUR terms.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Could you give us the definitions that you use? You see, many of us are wary of using our own definitions during debate; we've recently finished an argument with another user named Rramjet whose primary tactic was to change the definition of "UFO" mid-debate. We'd like to know how YOU define YOUR terms.

What does that have to do with this topic? You know, rather than being paranoid that another user would employ "tactics of definition" why not just learn a few astrological terms from the comfort of your search engine and then learn more about the topic of Astrology before jumping into a full blown debate?

How can you seriously, intelligently, debate any subject without doing some study of the subject first? Do you think that you can critically think and debate a topic without doing so? I say that you cannot.

 

[six7s]

It is fine with me that you do not believe me. I cannot make you believe anything. That is a personal decision and cannot be assigned to anyone else except yourself. Do you love your mother, your wife, your children? Okay. Prove it.

I can't

Nor do I pretend that I can

Nor do I pretend that I have a "mastery" of love - one that eludes those not familiar with some jargon

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Astro Teacher,
Why don't you take the million dollar challenge, and show us all to be the fools you claim we are ?

 

[six7s]

I seek no credibility.

Good

That is a skeptic's ruse that I never fall for.

Yeah... riiiiight... whatever you say, o master

If you want to debate this subject of astrology, then at least understand astrological terms enough to be able to debate cogently. What is so difficult about that? Even a child can learn some of the basic terms.

Cool! Then you should be eminently able to teach some of the basic terms, right?

 

[Astro Teacher]

Good

Yeah... riiiiight... whatever you say, o master

Cool! Then you should be eminently able to teach some of the basic terms, right?

You can easily find them using a search engine, or, by using your free library card. I'm a working astrologer, and like to spend my time teaching astrology to students who like to work hard and think for themselves.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Astro Teacher,
Why don't you take the million dollar challenge, and show us all to be the fools you claim we are ?

Never called you a fool. And please, do not use monolithic terms such as "us" when I am responding to your comments. Never heard of the million dollar challenge. What is it?

 

[Nonpareil]

What does that have to do with this topic? You know, rather than being paranoid that another user would employ "tactics of definition" why not just learn a few astrological terms from the comfort of your search engine and then learn more about the topic of Astrology before jumping into a full blown debate?

How can you seriously, intelligently, debate any subject without doing some study of the subject first? Do you think that you can critically think and debate a topic without doing so? I say that you cannot.

You fail to grasp my point. I want to know exactly what YOU mean by the terms that you use, not the official definition. That's what the Rramjet comment was about; Rramjet used the differences between his definition and ours to try and confuse the issue.
Besides, there's not really that much to learn about astrology - at least, not about your kind. Google turns up nothing but people claiming to be able to predict your love future through the movements of Venus. You have specifically said that these people are charlatans.
Perhaps you could give us a basic introduction to the type of astrology you use? Just bare-bones. It'd give us something to go on, and make it easier to find relevant information online.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

You can easily find them using a search engine, or, by using your free library card. I'm a working astrologer, and like to spend my time teaching astrology to students who like to work hard and think for themselves are gullible enough to pay me ..

Fixed it for you ...



( ... still wonder if you know where you are ... )

 

[Nonpareil]

Never called you a fool. And please, do not use monolithic terms such as "us" when I am responding to your comments.

Why not? There's a bunch of us, after all.

Never heard of the million dollar challenge. What is it?

Try doing the research for yourself, why don't you? I don't have time to teach people who aren't willing to think for themselves.

Nah, just kidding. The MDC is an open challenge by the James Randi Educational Foundation. Anyone who can prove that they have some kind of paranormal ability - telekinesis, dowsing, or even the ability to predict the future through astrology - can take the challenge. You apply, then arrange a scientific test under controlled conditions under which you prove your paranormal claims. If you pass, you get a million dollars and all the publicity you can eat.

 

[kitakaze]

Astro Teacher, welcome to the JREF. A few questions...

1) What are yor credentials as an astrologer?

2) Why do you refer to astrologers as "natives"?

3) You said...



That statement leads me to believe that you have an incorrect understanding of the science of electromagnetism. Have you studied the science of electromagnetism and do you understand the phenomenom of magnetic resonance?

I am a master astrologer and teacher with over 30+ years of experience. The word "natives" is a reference to a person whose chart, or nativity, is to be read.

Regarding magnetism. My assessment is correct. All of space, and every inch of our planet is filled with magnetic lines of influence and strength. Distance is not a factor in astrological forecasting - mathematics is, and by angles of force, we make our forecasts. I under the phenomena of magnetic resonance very, very well as I have been applying it professionally as an astrologer.

1) You did not give me your credentials in Astrology. You told me you are a master and have done it for 30 years. Where did you study? What certification do you have? What body or group recognizes you self-labelling as a master astrologer?

2) Why is a person's chart called their "nativity"?

3) Can you please explain the phenomenom of magnetic resonance as it relates to astrology? Please be specific. Where did you study electromagnetism? Finally, which of the following units do you use to measure magnetic resonance?

ampere (current)
coulomb (charge)
farad (capacitance)
henry (inductance)
ohm (resistance)
volt (electric potential)
watt (power)
tesla (magnetic field)
weber (flux)

 

[arthwollipot]

See this link, as it will help you to see the difference.

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/solar/percyseymour1.html

Sorry, I don't have time to read a full monograph on the subject. Can you break it down for me in your own words?

 

[Jimmy Roberts]

Why would you use gravity as a single argument to debase astrology when one has not mentioned gravity?

You asserted that the moon causes water levels in the brain to rise during the full moon phase. I addressed only that assertion. You were the first to mention tides and one cannot talk of tides without gravity. Or are tides caused by some mystical woo force in astrology? And please show me where I used gravity as a single argument against astrology.

If you actually believe that the mere act of "combing your hair" is enough to overwhelm the astrological forces that do affect you (like it or not) then you are seriously deluding yourself.

I didn't claim anything about overwhelming "astrological forces". Only tidal force:

I'm saying that because it is very week, any tidal effect the moon has on the water levels in a brain are completely overwhelmed by local forces.​

I don't know what you mean by tides or tidal force, but it's obviously different than what I understand it to be.

*sigh* Still no evidence to support your assertions...

 

[kitakaze]

Chapter 5 - Of Nativities

The fifth and currently final chapter of the Treatise section deals specifically with Nativities and specific details concerning the interpretation of Nativities that are useful for the student of Astrology. One of the most important pieces of information that an astrologer needs to collect before casting a Nativity is the time of birth. The time of the birth is manditory for the setting and placing of the Ascendant and the rest of the Houses (depending on which House model is used). Without this information the astrologer loses a large portion of material that is useful in interpretation. The lack of a birth time has always been a problem as long as there has been Nativities cast, therefore the Traditional fathers of Astrology have invented certain methods in which to discover this if it is unknown, or verify the information if it is known for accuracy. This is one of the most important tools in all Astrology and therefore should be understood by all students.

http://www.antiquus-astrology.com/Chap5.html

Astro Teacher, can you please tell me about how you discern the time and method of an individual's death?

Chapter 5.1 - Concerning Birth Time Rectification & Verification


Death is quite a taboo subject in Astrology and many astrologers will glaze over it or sugar coat the fact that each Nativity shows not only the time of death but also the method. Analyzing death significations is quite important, even if it is for self study.

Have you checked when and how you will die, yet?

 

[arthwollipot]

Sorry, I don't have time to read a full monograph on the subject. Can you break it down for me in your own words?

Actually, never mind. I'm skim reading the article (interview?) now.

To be honest, it seems to me like a lot of claims are being made with little or no data to back them up. Like this:

What I think might be happening is that the fetus's neural network acts as a sort of antenna that tunes into fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field. The imprinting of the neural antennae depends on genetic heredity, which gives us our basic congenital personality. Thus, the fetus is genetically predisposed to hear specific planetary signals, much as a radio is resonantly tuned to receive a particular station. So it's not that the planets make the person. Rather, the planets label a person's genetic predisposition to respond to specific magnetic signals.

There seems to be nothing here but speculation. But like I said, I'm skim-reading it and may well be missing some stuff.

But regardless, it really doesn't address my question at all. This article proposes a mechanism by which astrology works. It doesn't tell me how it differs, operationally, from "regular" astrology. Can you elaborate on this difference please?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

See this link, as it will help you to see the difference.

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/solar/percyseymour1.html

Since you have now given this link twice, may I just say that the following is the funniest thing I have read in a long time:

Omnipresent throughout the universe, magnetism is known to affect the biological cycles of numerous creatures here on Earth, including humans. In sum, Seymour's multi-link theory proposes that the planets raise tides in the gases of the Sun, creating sunspots and their particle emissions, which then travel across interplanetary space to strike Earth's magnetosphere, ringing it like a bell.[1] (See Fig. 1) These planetary magnetic signals are then perceived by the neural network of the fetus inside the mother's womb, heralding the child's birth.

Thank you for a big laugh.

Now could you explain the relationship of astrology to meteorology?

 

[six7s]

Now could you explain the relationship of astrology to meteorology?

Aquarius

Mostly cloudy with some light showers, clearing south of Pisces tomorrow morning.
Northwest 10 knots. Cloud increasing.​

Pisces

Cloudy periods with patchy light rain at times.
Southwest 20 knots, easing to westerly 15 knots tonight. Moderate sea becoming slight tonight.​

Aries

Cloudy periods. Some drizzle patches tomorrow morning, then becoming fine.
Northwest rising to 15 knots. Occasional rain developing early followed by a change to southwest 10 knots.​

Taurus

Becoming cloudy today. Drizzle patches tomorrow morning, then cloud breaking in the afternoon.
Westerly 10 knots rising to 15 knots in the evening. Fair visibility in patchy morning rain,then cloudy periods.​

Gemini

Fine with rain with hot and cold showers near Leo until tomorrow afternoon.​

Cancer

Light rain clearing today. Cloud increasing later tomorrow with drizzle in the cusp at night.
Northwest 20 knots, easing to 10 knots in the morning then rising to northerly 15 knots at night. Moderate sea easing to slight in the morning. Cloudy periods, with fair visibility in morning rain.​

Leo

Raining cats and dogs.
Northwest half a metre rising to 1 metre today, easing to half a metre Tuesday, rising to 1.5 metres Wednesday, then easing to half a metre​

Virgo

You're still not getting any​

Libra

Rain in the west and sunny to the east, with strong northerlies in the south and gale southerlies in the north.​

Scorpio

Northwest 15 knots easing to 10 knots for a time in the morning and again from evening. Sea slight. Light rain clearing in the afternoon.​

Sagittarius

Fine and cloudy periods. Light showers in the west overnight.
Northwest 15 knots, turning southerly 10 knots during the morning. Becoming northerly 15 knots in the evening and rising to 20 knots gusting 30 knots at night. Slight sea becoming moderate at night. Cloudy periods, with fair visibility in morning rain.​

Capricorn

Showers developing today, clearing tomorrow morning. Tomorrow evening, it will get dark just after sunset​

 

[fromdownunder]

deleted. I'm a bit behind the times.

 

[Starthinker]

To find a professional astrologer, first understand what it is that you want. Steer clear of those so-called "astrologers" giving out "personality readings" which is a waste of time. Avoid these kinds of readings at all costs, they are worthless to you.

What you will want is a forecast on your own personal transits relative to a point in time, and these forecasts must be practical, something you can actual use in the real world, either personally, or professionally.

I meant, can you do a reading? What kind of reading can you do? Are you saying astrology can predict my future? If I were your customer, what would you do for me?

Please note: I am not debating anything with you nor am I here to learn about astrology. I am asking what you would do, if I were your customer, to help make my life better? Or do I need to pay you for this information?

Another note: If you don't wish to discuss such things in public feel free to PM me.